ViaSat policies about throttling are wrong

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I recently got a ViaSat installation because that was apparently the only option to get internet where I moved. The contract was made on the phone only, and the details were handled only by the agent reading at high speeds a lot of small print. If I had been able to read this I would not have agreed: In the contract it is stated that after 25 GB (in my case) are used the speed of the connection may become slower, and may make it temporarily impossible watching high definition videos, if the network is "congested". This is an utter misrepresentation of what actually happens: It would have been more fair to state in the contract something like this: After you exceed the 25 GB data limit your internet connection will become effectively useless until the beginning of the next pay period.

Usually ISP's and data providers make promises that will at least guaranty a minimal data rate after the data cap is reached. For example, 600 kbps in some contract I found for Verizon. With merely 0.5 Mbps it is still possible to watch a youtube video at 460p, but with the rates that I currently observe, namely below 20 kbps and often lower than 10 kbps, it even becomes impossible to watch a video at 144p resolution without buffering breaks.

ViaSat should not do this to their customers. You can't claim that the system is congested to the point that you have to drop all customers who exceeded the data limit, while you still try to acquire more customers. Instead you should advertise a more realistic speed, that can be maintained at all times, at least 1 Mbps download and upload. I don't care if I can get data at 10-20 Mbps for a short period of time while eating up quickly the 25 GB. Most of the data in there aren't actually required and just a function of the completely bloated system where you visit a website and see 50 additional processes sending and receiving all kinds of data to place ads and observe the user's actions. I bet that 90 percent of those 25 GB data were just for numerous handshakes between a host of observation aps that I haven't been able to control or disable.
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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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Posted 11 months ago

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david, Champion

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Did you do any research beforehand on what you were signing a two year contract on?
(Edited)
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Bev, Champion

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Reiner, there is a learning curve with metered service. You have to learn how to make your priority data last longer. The Video Data Extender helps if you turn it on, save HD for those few times when you absolutely MUST see the video in HD.

Use ad blockers, like UBlock, or use the Viasat Browser which has UBlock built in. In addition you can find more data management tips here: https://help.viasat.com/articles/General/Maximize-Your-Data?_ga=2.114811015.1448754759.1529772823-62...
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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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It's amazing how quickly people come to the defence of ViaSat. So it's all just my problem, right?

The truth is that it requires quite a lot of sophistication to prevent devices and apps using the highest data rates possible. It's hardly ever like that I "absolutely must see the video in HD":
For instance, the youtube app on ipads will automatically choose a high resolution and you have to manually intervene setting it to a lower resolution. And you have to intervene every time again - Even though I tried I could not find a trick to set it's default resolution permanently to a low value, say 460p or lower.
The other thing: Of course I did research and came to the conclusion that I had basically no better option than trying out ViaSat, however based on their advertisements and even after reading some of the small print. But I didn't anticipate the depth of the inconsistency between what they advertise and what I find in the contract.

I also asked a lot of questions to the person on the phone who sold me that contract. But there is a systematic misrepresentation of the actual quality of service and I'm sure of that.

The way this seems to work is that ViaSat, like all other ISPs, makes great claims about the quality of their services, locks in people into contracts who due to living in rural areas have no real choice. And then ViaSat acts most of the time on a regime that is presented in the contract as worst scenario: The worst scenario in the contract is that occasionally the service might get slow if there is congestion on the network. But the truth is that I get almost always the slowest data speeds possible. Today I downloaded a file of 385 Mbytes (a video of a lecture) and it took 2 hours!
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Lora Thomas

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I Agree with you 100%.  ViaSat only cares about the money they rack in with the locked in 2 year contract. 
Here is my typical speed for months now.  This is weather or not I exceed my data allowance
I am about Fed up with this crap.
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Shannon Williams

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great point well said i know your pain sir well said great post some one told the truth for a change thank u man
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Ive been trying to stay silent lately, but I remember when it took a whole weekend to download 385 mb. 385 mb in a couple of hours might suck, but it's a lot faster than dialup.

Do you have electricity at your house? Have you ever considered calling the electric company to complain about the devices in your house that use power?
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James Besser

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electric company they say any cable box chews power But viasat modem keeps me warm in the winter.not good in the summer viasat has too many on the bird.and people go nuts put stress on the bird. theres times just walk away from the pc.one better have funds in your acct when payment is due. So I can see people getting ticked on slow speeds. let them vent they pay money out 
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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For what it's worth, I'm on a 12 GB plan and have used less than 6 GB for the month. My billing cycle resets in 11 days.

If you don't like the speeds after you use all of your priority data you have two options. Either don't use all of your priority data or upgrade to a more expensive plan. I take advantage of the late night free zone to preserve my priority data.

You could switch to a business plan if you want high speed all the time and don't want to conserve data. It works similar to your electric bill. The more you use the more you pay.

I'd much rather have my speeds slowed down than have a bill based on usage.
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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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Well Stephen, I appreciate your story about dialup. I can confirm that having been an internet user since the 1990ties that ViaSat does beat dialup. But if that is all you can give me in defence of ViaSat, that it is a little better than dial-up, that's not much of a praise. We're living in 2018.
And just last month I had a decent internet service by cable with at least 4 times the speed and no data limits whatsoever for half of what I pay now in a nice apartment just 8 miles away, which I had to give up because the house was sold. I know I made a mistake moving to a rural area that is really completely under served, and I'm saying that ViaSat is exploiting this problem. It would all be different if internet connections had more of a status as a public utility like electricity.

Regarding the electric system: 
Look, I'm paying now more than $90 just for a half-ass internet connection by ViaSat that works only half of the time.  That's more than my electric bill (of which probably 5-8 percent come from  ViaSat's modem, which consumes about as much as all my LED lamps). I'm complaining about the lousy quality in today's terms of what most people consider reasonable internet support, not about being unable to do HD binge watching. And I am not accusing ViaSat for the power consumed by my refrigerator.

So how about you stay on topic.
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Shannon Williams

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speak the truth man i here man i thought i was the only one here feeling used
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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You are paying Viasat for 25 GB of priority data and are complaining about speeds after you use that data.

I pay Viasat for 12 GB of priority data. When I use my priority data up, my speeds drop to 256 kbps during the evening, sometimes a bit slower and sometimes a bit faster. During the day, when most people are at work, my speeds are up to 5 mbps. I have no reason to complain because that is exactly what I am paying for.

I'm just explaining how the Liberty Plans work, which it sounds like you are on Liberty 25.

If you don't like how it works, there are other options which includes changing to a different plan or moving somewhere covered by a cable company.

Blaming Viasat for not performing like another company that doesn't even cover your area boggles my mind. Go on the cable company's website and get mad at them for not serving your area.
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Kenneth Shepherd

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I am on an old plan and have 150 GB of data. I pay $120 a month. I have no problems running out of data but the service is getting slower and slower everyday. I cannot wait for another service to come to my area. Rant over
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Kenneth Shepherd

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Man this site is very depressing. People stating there problems and someone else is telling them to suck it up. This guy Champion is a real ahole. Iam out and will not be back
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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There are a lot of guys named Champion on here.

And in other news, Festivus must still be going on!
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Jim16

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If they can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
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Speaking of kitchen, how is the State of FLA doin at bringing down Viasat?
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M.E.M.

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I accepted certain drawbacks when I moved out to the country. Dominoes won't deliver pizza to me and Viasat won't give me the consistent high speeds that I want. Go figure.
I now accept the fact that no matter how much I complain, Dominoes still won't deliver and Viasat still won't give me consistent high speeds.
I do think Viasat might be doing the best they can, even though it might not be what I want.
Their technological accomplishments really are mind boggling.
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Hfcomms

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I accepted certain drawbacks when I moved out to the country. Dominoes won't deliver pizza to me and Viasat won't give me the consistent high speeds that I want. Go figure.


Winner winner chicken dinner!  Fact of the matter is for Viasat to do what the OP wants them to do would require lowering dramatically the contention on each gateway and spotbeam in order for them to give you a guaranteed minimum data rate available on demand.  Problem is if you want to go that route do you want to pay several hundred dollars a month for that guarantee?  I'm not joking.  It's simply not a viable business model otherwise.

And there are companies that provide commercial and backup satellite connections at a guaranteed data rate.  If they have a thousand customers and guarantee each one a minimum of 1Mb down then they can only have 1000 customers on that beam and have to charge accordingly to make it work.

Here is a link to Skycasters that will give you a guaranteed data rate on demand.  https://www.skycasters.com/broadband-satellite-compare/compare/  Viasat doesn't look so bad now does it??


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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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Stephen, are you paid by ViaSat to deflect any criticism? If I could get persistent or at least half way persistent 256 kbps I would not complain. But what I get is on average significantly less than 100 kbps. At very rare moments I get about 200 kbps for a few minutes.  I'm not saying that it's just ViaSat alone exploiting the situation. This applies to all ISPs as far as I can tell, but I can deal only with the few that cover my area. Of course I could waste my time and bitch and moan on other websites as well, but you seem to anyway making it your mission to convince me that this a pointless activity. Or what do you usually write about in your 1866 posts? 

Most of the time I have only one device connected to the system. A desktop computer and sometimes an iPad, but I use most of the time only one of the devices at a time. To watch a Youtube video at the low resolution of 240p requires about 20 KiB/s which makes roughly 160 kbps.  Most of the time I can't even watch at that low quality, and get frequent buffering breaks even if I set the resolution to 144p, which means blurry images with lousy audio quality and delays.  But you're saying that I'm asking for too much. The suggestion I should move to a different place or stop complaining is preposterous.
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Shannon Williams

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u see that too huh lol
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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You keep mentioning slow speeds but aren't saying what time of day. Are these speeds during the week in the morning and day? Are these speeds only during the evenings and weekends?

The Liberty Pass isn't meant to give you good speeds when the network is congested. It is only meant to give you good speeds when the network isn't busy.

I suffer from the same thing after I use my priority data.
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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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M.E.M., I agree that it's better to have ViaSat at least giving it a try in remote areas, and you may be right about admiring their technology. I wouldn't complain if they would at least give some minimal coverage rather than basically making their system almost useless unless you pay up and get more data.

The reason why I critique their policy and not their existence as such is here: They face the dilemma that they need a reasonable sized customer base that keeps increasing to be able to pay for extending their technology. And they face it in the wrong way: Providing a rather high data rate of something like 12 mbps as they advertise is of course quite attractive (and I initially measured about 14 mbps before the data cap kicked in).  But that also means they need to spread the installed bandwidth over more and more people at a faster rate if they are growing. So the usual corporate short think kicks in: Let's make great promise about our service and attract new customers to make more money. Once we have those customers we do as little as possible to prevent loosing them. And that's a possible strategy because it's quite a hassle to get out of the contract, plus there are hardly any alternatives. Instead they keep preaching about all the tricks you can try to play in order to stay below the data cap - such as not really using their system.

I claim they don't have to do it that way, there is no good technical reason.  Quite frankly I would prefer an unlimited data plan with a low data rate, up to 5 mbps say, but with a guaranty for a minimal data rate that keeps the system being useful.  So I'd be happy with having a maximal data rate of just 4 or 5 mbps if I know that it barely ever gets slower than 1 mbps.  It would allow allocation of their installed bandwidth to a larger customer base without pissing off some customers, like me right now.
However, a plan of that sort doesn't seem to exist. Instead, even if you buy the 50 GB Liberty plan, you're likely to get throttled to the speed of a dialup modem once you exceed the cap. (BTW, 50 GB sounds like a lot, but the average American household uses 190 GB of data.)
I hope that someone at ViaSat is listening.




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Lora Thomas

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So, wait.  What your saying is..   Bend over and take it?   
I have the "unlimited" freedom plan 150gb that totally is NOT unlimited.
I pay $120.00 a month.  MY BEST SPEED on DAY 1 of my data reset is  THIS.
So.. I should be happy with this?    
wow.    ya.  Not going to happen.  Oh and on top of this crap speed.
Are you aware that ViaSat is also a NET NANNY?  .. yip . there are websites I am not allowed to download from. One of them is the website I have to get all of my 3d printer slicer software from. I go to get the file I need and I get blocked.  Page can't be displayed.  BUT if I use my phone as a hot spot using Verizon network. I am able to download.   
So.. Thanks Viasat for being my Net Nanny..   
OH wait.. I should bend over and take it. and say.. Thank you.. 
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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No, that's not what I'm saying If addressing me... I was going to clarify but this seems more appropriate and would likely be the reaction anyway so why even bother?



Try splitting out the download problem which is totally separate and will likely be lost in the fray that's sure to follow - what site? That one may actually be correctable... there are very few sites actually blocked by Viasat and this may simply be a DNS error (frequently encountered on Viasat depending on your beam).
(Edited)
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Lora. If u have trouble accessing a site with Viasat, utilize a VPN (there are free ones). That will get by any issues with Viasat's DNS.
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My website, DMCToday.com used to not be accessible over five years ago when I first had service with Exede. It was a technical issue, not a Net Nanny scenario. I never got around to reporting the issue just because I was being lazy.

Fast forward to today, the issue has been resolved and my website is accessible from Viasat/Exede.

If you can't get to a website, send a message to Viasatlistens@viasat.com and they can help you.
(Edited)
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Lora Thomas

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Ok  good suggestion about the vpn. 
giving that a try
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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You just admitted that you are paying for up to 12 mbps and sometimes get more than 12 mbps before using all of your data.

I'm at a loss for words. No more comments from me.
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Deku (The #1 Hero Data Saver), Champion

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TO THE PERSON... HERE ---->   @Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico i have MULTIPLY options for ya :3 ok here i go,... option 1... you can either try to manage your data by controlling it or by finding out what device is hog washing your data.. or learn to deal with it... OR option 2... OR YA CAN JUST PIPE DOWN AND JUST GO WITHOUT INTERNET!!! 

that is my advice :3 HOPE YALL ENJOY MY COMMENT :3 


P.S.!!! option 2 is a fact... even though know one wants to know facts... they will have to learn it sometimes... WELP!!! IMMA DONE NOW!!! :3 TIME TO MOVE ONTO THE NEXT POST!!! :D
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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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It is likely that I find a solution for the data "hogging" problem that eats away my priority data cap - once the next pay cycle starts. I learned my lesson to not be so naive about how bad the throttling can go, and will take measures to reduce the amount of data I'm downloading by monitoring my devices, so that the next time I can stretch the 25 GB cap over a month. It remains that I still have to wait more than a week for the next cycle.

I have not changed my mind one bit about the fact that ViaSat systematically downplays the miserable quality of their service.  It's nowhere stated and should not be expected by a customer that their system becomes essentially useless as soon as you exceed the data cap.

In the last 5 days I have experienced daily long periods of almost complete breakdown of the connection: going to internet sites, even google, results in time-out warnings; it becomes impossible to even watch a youtube video at 144p. Sometimes the connection completely goes silent, while there is still a ping time of about 550-650 ms. (e.g., using the command "ping yahoo.com" in an Ubuntu terminal). I can directly measure data speeds by having only my desktop computer connected to the modem, using a system monitor tool under the Ubuntu operating system. I get speeds that are stay most of the time below 10 KiB/s, which corresponds to about 80-90 kbits/s. At that speed it is impossible to watch a youtube video at more than 144p. And there are frequently long phases where it almost crawls to a halt with data rates even below 10 kbits/s. 

In addition, the system seems to be highly affected by weather conditions: A bit of strong rain and the connection slows to a crawl or sometimes completely disconnects triggering a modem restart
(flashing white ring). Then there was one time a reasonable speed up to 1mbps for for short time period in the very early morning hours, and the next day no connection at all at that time. It's not the hardware I bet, it's the idiotic throttling policy taken too far.

ViaSat and others claim it's the internet of last resort for rural America. I think it is even less than that. They should allow me to cancel my 3 week old contract and wave the fees, and I would be out of here in no time. Have tried tech support to no real avail. They reset the connection once, but it went quickly back to the usual super lame service. Tried to call again and get wait times of 20 minutes that become an hour or until I loose patience. This thing really sucks and I can't be nice about it.

Right now there's thunderstorm, not good. Let's see what happens if I press the submit button to send my rant. The modem still has  blue ring but ...

Should i grind my teeth or cheer?

well, cheers then.
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VinylHanger

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You have to understand that pretty much every day someone in your situation says the exact same things.

It is hard to constantly answer the same question Iin a different, more polite way.

The service sucks compared to terrestrial internet. No one here will deny that.

If you have free time, use it. You also can download at a public Wi-Fi space and play it back later on your phone or tablet connected to your TV. You can do HD that way and use no data.

Just be glad you get what you get. We started out with 12 mbps and 15 gigs of data and were paying 100 bucks a month.

Is that the only plan you can get?
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Ronald Stricklin

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You also have a fourth option. You could seek out viasat to offer a constructive opinion, which you have done. The opinion that viasat should offer a quality of service above 2g and dial up speeds, is what you offered. You also set the bar low at 0.5 Mbps. You could continue debating here but the nonsensical arguments are, if you don't like it move or viasat is faster than dial up. In the short term viasat is the best option, why move simply because online fans are bothered you'd dare criticize their provider of choice? Dial up is also faster than the pony express. This really isn't worth noting but neither is that viasat is faster than dial up. 
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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If you are complaining about the service not working due to heavy rain, you will never be satisfied with satellite internet. Might as well rent U-Haul and move away from the country, unfortunately you won't be able to eat a lot of peaches.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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I'm on 329, but speeds are still all over the place - but just ran one and got 15.8 Mbps back to back - with the stuff I do and when, it doesn't make much difference I could live with a consistent 1.5 Mbps these days. The only thing speed gives me these days is bragging rights with speed test results like those I just got. If it's there during the free zone when I download, that's good for me. I'm not cutting the cord on a Liberty 12 plan...
(Edited)
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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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thanks for these hints. I'll monitor this from time to time under varying conditions. Right now (at 1:30 am) things are fine: open sky and few users - no surprise.
I too could actually live with a consistent 1-2 Mbps. I don't really need very high speed, but it definitely has to work. There appears to be a problem: I think ViaSat - for marketing reasons mainly waists a lot of bandwidth to provide high data rates for a few lucky customers who still have not reached the cap, so they can brag with it and attract more people.  On the other hand I admittedly might not even have tried it out if the promised maximal rate had been merely a few digits, say 3 Mbps. just a few weeks ago 1-2 Mbps used to seem like stone age internet to me, being pampered by having had a good cable connection (before I moved here). Cable easily got up to 50 Mbps download speed. Before that I lived in the UK in Cambridge where everything was optical fibre, way faster and not expensive.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I mentioned peaches because the Presidents of the United States of America used to sing about moving to the country and eating a lot of peaches. If you move away from the country, one could only assume that you would not be able to eat a lot of peaches.
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Rita Beeman

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Because of global warming the last frosts are later and usually freeze the buds of our peach trees and we get very small peaches and small crops
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Rita, I'm replying here as if I replied below you wouldn't be able to edit the post.  You shouldn't post your email address on a public site as you will start getting hit with a ton of spam mail and phishing attempts.  You should edit the email address out of your post below.  
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zanne

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I feel for you because I did not know about bandwidth restrictions when I first got satellite internet, but my dialup quit working and my phonelines were so screwed up it was impossible to get it to work. So I didn't get to research and the written contract did not mention anything about caps (that was back when I got Direcway which got bought out by Hughesnet). When I decided to switch to Exede, I read all of the fine print and details so I would know what I was getting in to. With Hughesnet, there was no contract, they just took over and changed the rules-- raised prices, lowered bandwidth allowance, etc without any warning whatsoever. No e-mails, letters, etc. Just cut my usage limit in half (well, I got less than half on their base plan). I was incredibly frustrated with them and everyone told me to suck it up and deal because it's what I signed up for.

Unfortunately, caveat emptor applies here. You have to read the fine print. I never sign a contract without reading it in full. I know a lot of people just sign without reading and end up with unpleasant surprises.

I had the plan where our limit was 10Gb with a free period until I switched to the Freedom plan. I do miss the free period, but the 150Gb is not bad. But more than half of it got used up by downloading Elder Scrolls Online... LOL.
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GabeU, Champion

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I wonder if, legally speaking, giving the okay on the phone is the equivalent of signing.  Sort of like when you call to change something on your DirecTV account and you give the okay when they tell you that you'll be put into a new contract as a result of the change.  

With my ISP, they ask at the end of the sales call if you agree to the terms read in their scripted spiel, which includes mention of the contract.  I don't know if they do the same thing with ViaSat, but it wouldn't surprise me.  
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Dina Hess

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Andy Schack -- the last step before the technician left was bringing in and plugging in the modem.  I had read about the "Toblerone" modem on this forum prior to installation (while researching whether I wanted to sign up at all) and as soon as he unboxed it I recognized the problem. I objected to the installer immediately, and he went back out to his truck and then came back in and said he didn't have any VS2 modems on it.   He also said his work order was for VS1.  He and I both called the dealer, who said someone would look into it and get back with me the next day.  The installer fled as quickly as possible.  It was a few more days and many, many phone calls later before we managed to establish that VS2 wasn't available for our location at all, and that the dealer probably knew that because he put in a work order for VS1 despite his entire sales pitch focusing around the speed and lack of congestion on VS2 and how we'd totally avoid all of the known problems with VS1 service.  
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Andy Schack

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One thing I can tell you as a dealer is that the first screen we see when we go to build a workorder is the serviceability screen. We put in the customer's address and it shows which plans are available and there is NO confusing the VS1 plans for the VS2 plans, that's for sure. 
I can't help but feel bad for the installer because he didn't know what was said during the sale process.....he just got the workorder, loaded up and headed out. 
Back years ago I did some fulfillment work for Dish Network. I learned very quickly that what the customer THOUGHT they were getting vs what was on the paperwork hardly EVER jived. Those were dark days indeed. 

Andy
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Dina Hess

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Yes, I don't think the installer did anything out of line at all.  I had a few minor annoyances about how he did the job -- he made a considerable mess that he didn't clean up or even mention so I didn't find it until after he was gone, for instance -- but the main problem definitely wasn't his doing.
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Rita Beeman

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I am currently a HughesNet Coustomer. I have the highest 30 gig plan and pay over 100 a mo. If you had to choose witch plan would you stay with now you have had both ? Thanks Rita Beeman tinkertoy55@gmail.com.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I'm going from memory back five to six years ago so I could be completely wrong but here goes. 

When I originally had Exede service over five years ago, the installer had me sign something before he left.  I think he even put me on the phone with someone to verify he completed the install to my satisfaction.  I had no complains about the service or speeds but I ended up canceling the service due to finances about six months later.  I paid the early termination fee, which I knew all about when I signed up.  I didn't try to get out of it because I knew what I agreed to when I signed up for service.

Fast forward to 2017.  I knew the details of the two year agreement and signed up for service again.  The installer came out, did a great job and didn't ask me to sign a thing.  I thought it was a little funny, but no complaints from me since I already knew the contract, and frankly I probably already accepted it electronically since I signed up for service online.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Viasat has some pretty strict installation standards - latest copy of the Viasat Installation and Service Call Standards (Google is your friend but DuckDuckGo is a better friend) that I find with a release date of November 2017 specifically states the installer/technician must collect the electronic signature as part of provisioning new retail customers (among other guidelines).

That's not to say standards are followed or enforced but rather that they exist.
(Edited)
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Reiner Wilhelms-Tricarico

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I didn't have anything to sign at installation time. It crossed my mind and I wondered a bit about that but assumed that was normal procedure. I figured the technician, who was quite polite and worked efficiently, had nothing to do with this. However, I recall he asked me for the last four digits of my ssn at some point - of course he had to look up the account number. He appeared very trustworthy and we had a friendly chat, and I don't believe he did anything wrong.
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Diana, Viasat Employee

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Old Labs, Yes, that is the installation standard. Any new customer having service installed and is not signing the customer agreement, let Viasat know. We expect the signature to be the customer or someone the customer designates.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Diana is 110% correct of course. My installer scrolled through the agreement and had me sign at the end, like you are suppose to.
If installers are not doing that, that is a problem. Money exchanged or not, if a customer can prove they are not the one that electronically signed an agreement, Viasat would have trouble enforcing the agreement, such as the early termination fee.

This could easily be fixed by signing process where a customer must pur the last 4 of their social in, or birth month and year for instance. That is not giving up personal identifying information, but will prove who electronically signed.
(Edited)
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Dina Hess

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That's a good point. I assumed that no signature was required, rather than assuming that one was required and was falsely provided.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Now you're getting into the need for non-repudiation as previously mentioned for an electronic agreement to be valid - a bit of information that only the signer can accurately provide and in a secure manner.    
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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You bet. I deal with electronic acceptances on a regular basis. It is not rocket science. Not even Wildblue-1 science level!
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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i say we issue all subscribers citizens CAC cards and card readers... no more Internet anonymity and all messages digitally signed with the certificate on there ;)

Which reminds me, did I turn mine in when I left? I might be in violation of some federal statute if I didn't.
(Edited)
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J Censoplano

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I am retired from 30 years in Information Services and Data management and have worked extensively with both public (ATT) and private (Comcast) data information service providers and QOS or throttling has been around for more than 10 years. 

The cellular and ISPs have needed the major (ATT, Verizon, Comcast, etc) to implement hardware and firmware upgrades to all the backbone (ground based & satellites) that support integrated web traffic protocol detection and manipulation (QOS or Quality Of Service) which identifies and filters packets based on protocol types.  Since most of the current data running across home user networks is entertainment oriented the entertainment industry has a huge interest in monitoring and managing the types of data and how it is to be used by whomever.

This actually goes far beyond throttling traffic types but also involves serious data security issues.  I would have to assume that much government involvement has been key to the type of control that ISPs and service providers have over any and all Internet content. In fact I believe that ISPs are only doing what they are allowed or told that they must do with their networks.  

So since this is probably being pressure driven on the ISPs they have to come up with a way to implement changes, upgrades and management and support of the systems they are responsible for.  We as customers have to first of all, know that the Internet is A PUBLIC ACCESS service for digital content and so each persons data uses, patterns, interests are all in the PUBLIC DOMAIN and subject to scrutiny and prosecution and no one is above that (in theory) not Rosanne or our current President when using these systems.

So there has to be a highly sophisticated network of COs, PBXs, digital data warehouses (data concentrators) for monitoring and managing the enormous amounts of digital data flowing through all the routers, switches (satellites, cellular nodes and other wireless non-ground based) which make up this data cloud as they are calling it.

It's like many other things in our age that if you want to get something really big and expensive done, get the end users to foot most of the bill for it.  This is easiest to accomplish by incorporating entertainment into it. Movies, Music and digital gaming are huge parts of how this system is being financed for upgrading and management.

But it has other much more important implications such as data privacy, security, in banking, money markets, and military national security aspects, it is a necessary evil but us as users need to keep in mind that we are all sharing a PUBLIC DOMAIN network system to buy, sell, and find entertainment which opens us up to marketing (malware) and exploitation (phishing schemes) and government control.

Government grants and subsidies are also helping to pay for this too which gives them a right to regulate and have a stake in this system and how it is used and for what purposes.  After all, the Internet was originally a DARPA (ARPANET) project that has grown to what it is today.

Myself, I want to have more control over my own access point, I want to monitor and manage my own data and bandwidth so I can get the most out of my allocation and get the best service for the dollars I am spending. I want to have the hardware and software at my end point and have total control over my connection to the PUBLIC DOMAIN network I am attached to.  This is not easily or cheaply done just yet. 

The content providers are moving away from giving users software controls over their applications and opting for applications that are basically pass-through portals and would rather simplify the data detection and manipulation by just detecting the available maximum available and adjusting the feed to that to provide "the best quality experience" but they are perpetuating the problem of data network congestion rather than conservation of those resources.
(Edited)
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Andy Schack

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No doubt, when you partner with government, they immediately become the senior partner. 

Andy
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Ronald Stricklin

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I just wanted to add that viasat is much faster than the telegraph machine.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I wish I knew Morse Code. Most people will laugh at me for saying this, but CW is an amazing technology.
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Ronald Stricklin

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Accessing google on 1800's technology is impossible. This seems like a given but someone feels the need to point out that Viasat is faster than dial up.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Morse code is a proven technology that has been around for almost 200 years. Google is about 20 years old. When Google merges into some other company or gets censored by the government, Morse code will still be around.
(Edited)
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Ronald Stricklin

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and so are smoke signals. Smoke signals are slower than viasat.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Smoke signals don't have the capability of sending information to the other side of the planet.
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Jeff Heckman

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I am new to ViaSat and we got a pumped up plan of 50mb with 100gig with full intention of using it.  The issue I have with their throttling is they blatantly lie to you about it.  I'm very aware that many companies use throttling and prioritization and I hammered the subject.  It seems that a majority of their staff are trained to shy away from the question, but I got a few hard numbers out of them in the respect of maybe losing anywhere from 15 - 20megabits during prioritization.  After getting that response we pitched in and here we are looking at a six hour streak of 0.3 - 0.6 megabits on a 50 megabit plan.   To that I believe this service to be just as criminal as many are reporting.  Is it so difficult to be upfront about such things?  I do believe that this could be pursued legally and if anyone feels up to a class action lawsuit.  Please be sure to let us know so we can get the money they will most likely try to grab in the equipment return - See Consumer Reports on the hundreds of instances of that.  As far as anyone's defense that I can pay to get more if needed for the month - let's make sure we all consider that I asked about this and the reply was:  for 10gigs additional for the month $95. Highway robbery, but that's my opinion. 
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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They don't do themselves any favors calling plans "unlimited" though. I mean in a lot of respects the unlimited plans are inferior to the Liberty plans.

You might get more priorty data, but they cost more, bave no free zone, and then restrict your video résolution. But all peuple hear is thé Word unlimited and Forget about all thé negatives that come with thèse plans.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Amen. They should have never started using the word unlimited but they had to so they could compete with everyone else using that word.
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Jeff Heckman

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Hadn't known their were other plan choices, but I'll admit I was pretty happy with the 100gig number.  Far beats the competition in our rural area.  I am starting to believe the "not evil company" part, but the series of unfortunate events and discoveries that led to the call with their support team at nearly 1AM certainly told a different tale.  Truth be told, I'm glad I came to this forum and got a more balanced explanation. Kudos fellow users. 
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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100GB of priority data?

A lot of plans we talk about are grandfathered and unfortunately no longer available.

If I had to be critical of Viasat on one issue, it was funny how initial unlimited" plans offered 150GB priority. So people have up Liberty and Freedom plans for it. This got people to pay more, give up a free zone if on Liberty, and get more people on the video resolution downgrader.

A few months later, unlimited plans offered nowhere near 150GB. But by then, less Freedom and Liberty plans existed in the hands of customers.
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GabeU, Champion

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To be perfectly honest, though the Unlimited plans sound nice, I think they made a  mistake in offering them, or at least calling them such.  To offer such on a system with a considerably limited throughput, especially when considering the number of customers, I think was unwise.  

Granted, the prioritization and the fact that there is no guarantee as to speed, or even uninterrupted service, is spelled out in the fine print, but it still sets a precedent that becomes very difficult to live up to in a relatively short amount of time, especially in an age where everyone wants their Netflix.  
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Bev, Champion

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It really depends on what you do with your internet. WE tend to game and, thus, download a lot during the daytime, required updates as well as need it NOW beta games I test.

We generally stream only on desktops either YouTube or Twitch, I don't broadcast but possibly once a year. I use screen share on Discord a lot.

For me the now grandfathered Unlimited with 150 GB priority data at up to 25 Mbps fr the same price I paid for Liberty 50 is a better plan.

I don't need prime time speed, just a connection and, even 0.5 Mbps would be fine for me then. What I need is decent download speeds form 7 AM through noon Central time and, even if I go over my priority limit, 99% of the time, Viasat delivers what I need on the plan I have.

Your needs might be better served by a Liberty plan.
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Dina Hess

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I think there are at least 3 major problems that tend to get overlapped.

1. Salespeople *consistently and repeatedly* misrepresent the service.  That leads to infuriated customers stuck in 2 year contracts and is 100% avoidable.  Viasat should be recording and, when necessary, reviewing *all* conversations between salespeople and customers in order to weed out the salespeople who claim things (as is so very often done) like a minimum service speed of 5 Mbps.  Honesty in sales is both desirable and achievable.

2. Service varies enormously from beam to beam. Some of us are stuck with speeds so low that webpage loads fail in evenings and holidays even with priority data remaining and even best-case service speeds are never more than about 25% of what we theoretically "can" get according to the plans.  Others, like Stephen Rice loves to remind us, get great speeds most of the time even if priority data is used up.  Accurate representation to a customer of typical speeds both pre-and-post priority data *for their specific beam* would be very helpful.  

3. People who are used to big-city internet often have no idea what to expect of satellite.  While this is true for some new subscribers, it's also what tends to get claimed any time people have issues that are more appropriately allocated to problem 1 or 2, and that's really not helpful. 



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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I do not get great speeds during primetime when my priority data is used up.  Speeds during primetime when I don't have priority data is around 256 kbps.  Despite what people on here may say, 256 kbps is perfectly fine for web browsing but you cannot do any video with it.  Once primetime is over, my speeds increase and I am able to do video again.  That is exactly how the Liberty 12 plan works.  Anyone who thinks they should be able to do video during primetime after using up their priority data on Liberty 12 is very wrong.
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Dina Hess

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Okay, but my point was that many of us get speeds of 256 kbps (or often less) even when we *do* have priority data remaining.  Often we do, in fact, have trouble just doing web browsing -- not video, just simply pulling up a recipe for dinner, for instance -- on nights and weekends even with priority data remaining.  It's consistent, and it gets frustrating.  Salespeople should disclose the limitations, with attention to location because it's so fundamental, so people have realistic expectations *before* signing a contract -- both for the sake of honesty and the sake of customers' good will.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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What recipe?
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Dina Hess

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Most recently, this one.  I very highly recommend it, by the way :)  It turned out delicious. I didn't have potato starch so I skipped that detail, I omitted the extra salt, and I tripled the spinach because we like more than just a touch of it.

https://thisoldgal.com/instant-pot-creamy-tuscan-garlic-chicken/


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GabeU, Champion

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Oooh.  That looks good!  That site takes FOREVER to load, though.  Busy server, perhaps.