Video control has a problem

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  • Updated 6 months ago
Yes, I am out of Priority data, it's 11 PM so yes still peak hours, I get that but, this is ridiculous even for those conditions. 21 kbps!? no video will load that way.

Otherwise my speed is running 3-5 Mbps tonight but video is being throttled well below that. Is that shaper using an algorithm that reduces video connection speed by a percentage of the available speed? If it is, that explains it. Intentional, working as intended?

If so, okay, not a problem but, I don't think this is what y'all want to be happening. 

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Bev, Champion

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  • Disappointed.

Posted 6 months ago

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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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I just thought that was a picture of you chasing off the trespassers on your property!

Anyhow, remember the Evolution plans that woukd allow normal browsing all the time and then just throttled video? Yea. That didn't work the best either.

The key would be to just allow downloading of online content for later viewing. I mean that is what I do. But why can't Viasat or Hughesnet partner with a developer or develop their own video downloader. I mean they developed their own browser, and it works pretty well.
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Mark here

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I thought it was a picture of someone aiming at the programmer that wrote the algorithm

...

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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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The programmer wrote it to a business analyst's specs - left to his own devices the programmer would have written it correctly and taken everything into account trying to explain why he had no real control over how content is delivered buy a content provider. He probably pointed the flaws out to the business analyst but as a lowly programmer was overruled by management because "video optimization" sounds like a cool selling point.

He's aiming at the wrong person... he needs to aim higher up the food chain ;)
(Edited)
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Regardless, looks like Bev's kind of show.
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Not that this is necessarily the case, but I've had specific videos on Youtube give me all kinds of problems, while others play perfectly.  This is while I have ample speed and virtually no congestion related choppiness.  I don't know if they're on a difference server or what the problem is, but I've had it happen quite a few times.  

I was trying to watch a video concerning the Hillsborough Disaster one day, and no matter what I tried it just buffered like mad, even on 144p, while others I could watch in 1080p without any issue.  

I didn't look at the nerd stats for the video, though, so I don't know what it was showing.  
(Edited)
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Have you tried running through a VPN and see how the video performs?
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No, I didn't try that.  I can't find the video that I was trying to watch, as I was going to try it again tonight.  Still, if I find it and it gives me problems again I'll try that.  But, VPN's tend to not work very well with HughesNet.  The speed dumps terribly.  Still, I've give it a try.  
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The speed does dump, but then, it shouldn't dump as bad as what Bev is experiencing.

If Viasat and Hughesnet give you video lemons, make lemonade!
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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De(prioritization) applies to all traffic - couple that with video stream throttling on unlimited plans and it's a deadly combination. Just as the combination of  (de)prioritization and throttling for all traffic on Liberty plans is severe - videos get even worse when you have the video data extender enabled on Liberty plans and are subject to (de)prioritization - that's what everybody's been complaining about for quite some time now - it hurts when your ox is gored and not someone else's;)   
(Edited)
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I get that, but the darned thing shouldn't be throttling video to 21 Kbps for any reason and, it seems to be doing just that. same thing on several videos, on three different computers. Video on my plan should not throttle below 1 Mbps, and while I had better than 1 Mbps for browsing, every video was 21-25 Kbps and, thus would not load.

Makes me thing the traffic shaper is throttling based on a percentage of available speed rather than set to throttle video to a set speed based on the plan you have.

Like I said, if that's intentional, no problem but, if it's not working right then, someone needs to look into why it's misbehaving and, it seems to be misbehaving.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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It's been intentionally misbehaving for quite a while now - everybody's been dismissing the complaints because they weren't seeing it on their own beams yet - (de)prioritizing something that's already being throttled has an exponential impact - it's not percentage based and undoubtedly there are some QoS rules involved that push video streaming even further back into the queue - browsing will get a higher priority - someone doing online banking probably deserves a bit more priority than someone watching the latest anime regardless of time of day ;)

When capacity is exceeded, the last thing you want to do is give the heavier usage activities more priority.   

I noticed it on Liberty a while ago on a very crowded beam once throttled and prioritized things go downhill fast - browsing continues pretty smooth provided you take the time to eliminate all the bloat from web sites.  
(Edited)
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@Old Labs i saw what you said about someone watching the latest anime regardless time of day :3 BUT!!! i always tend to download my animes the day after they tend to come out :3 BUT!!! if its an anime i really want to watch... THEN!!! ill download about... close to 20 or 30 episodes of the anime :3 cause... i have the idm A.K.A internet download management which i have the lifetime license for one computer :3 SOOOO!!! into terms... i can go to ANY websites and download ANY videos i want to :3 and yes... i can even go onto amazon prime and download the videos... cause the idm pops up saying download video... but... i just click the x onto the little box and stuff... cause... id rather go to an 3rd party website that will let you watch animes or download animes or sometimes i go to a private website that my friend has invited me to sign up by a link... so i can download animes from that private website that you can ONLY get through an invite link :

also... what do ya mean by
someone doing online banking probably deserves a bit more priority than someone watching the latest anime regardless of time of day ;)
is that supposed to be referred to me... cause i watch the latest anime when it comes out onto that day??? well... i tend to download all my animes... i dont watch them online anymore :3

OH YEAH!!! THAT REMINDS ME!!! THE LATEST EPISODE OF BOKU NO HERO MY ACADEMIA EPISODE COMES OUT TODAY!!! :D YAY!!! :D I NEED TO DOWNLOAD IT IF ITS ALREADY OUT NOW!!! :D
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@Old Labs i saw what you said about someone watching the latest anime regardless time of day :3 BUT!!! i always tend to download my animes the day after they tend to come out :3 BUT!!! if its an anime i really want to watch... THEN!!! ill download about... close to 20 or 30 episodes of the anime :3 cause... i have the idm A.K.A internet download management which i have the lifetime license for one computer :3 SOOOO!!! into terms... i can go to ANY websites and download ANY videos i want to :3 and yes... i can even go onto amazon prime and download the videos... cause the idm pops up saying download video... but... i just click the x onto the little box and stuff... cause... id rather go to an 3rd party website that will let you watch animes or download animes or sometimes i go to a private website that my friend has invited me to sign up by a link... so i can download animes from that private website that you can ONLY get through an invite link :

also... what do ya mean by
someone doing online banking probably deserves a bit more priority than someone watching the latest anime regardless of time of day ;)
is that supposed to be referred to me... cause i watch the latest anime when it comes out onto that day??? well... i tend to download all my animes... i dont watch them online anymore :3

OH YEAH!!! THAT REMINDS ME!!! THE LATEST EPISODE OF BOKU NO HERO MY ACADEMIA EPISODE COMES OUT TODAY!!! :D YAY!!! :D I NEED TO DOWNLOAD IT IF ITS ALREADY OUT NOW!!! :D
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ok.... i hate this fricking double post now -_-
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Calm  down Deku, it was an analogy - QoS refers to quality of service. Certain activities will be given priority over other activities. Given the proper router, you can even tune QoS for your local network.

 For example, during congested periods or any other period, should not someone trying to call 911 (or even any other phone call) over VOIP receive priority over someone leisurely browsing the internet, watching videos, downloading files, etc.

Capacity isn't limitless on Viasat...          
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old labs, OH I GET IT NOW!!! :D i think i have the ability with the QoS onto my router :D yeah i have it checked for both 2.5GHZ and for the 5GHZ :D i have both of them checked onto my end :D also... i need to figure out of how to make gaming for the QoS onto my netgear n900 work... cause i dont even know how to do that @>@ maybe... some youtube videos will help me :) if there is any simple ones that is... :l
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Don't feel too picked on Bev. I just watched a show on my laptop while the family watched some show I didn't care about and the show I was watching buffered every 10 seconds for the first few minutes. I finally paused it for a few minutes and it finished playing with no buffering. Now mind you I am on VS2 Large Beam.....and to add insult to injury, I ran a speed test while I had the show paused and got almost 15mbps dn. Like I have said in the past.....VS2 will give you rocking speed test but lousy video streaming. 

Andy
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Do what I do.......download the video to remote server then download locally.

I literly do that for EVERYTHING. $5 vps with 1tb of bandwidth a month......low storage but I'm not archiving stuff there......just a temp drop off.

Sometimes I will grab a bunch and timer ftp client to start at 3am freezone if I'm not awake.
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what service are you trying to stream from? I know it won't matter a ton but I do know that a few streaming services buffer even during ideal conditions. Not always but certainly seems to be the case most often in my experience but I know a few channel apps tend to buffer more than say Netflix or Hulu. 
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If you were asking me: I was streaming from Netflix. I'm in a Large Beam, the one that covers the Panama City area of FL.....there's another beam (still Large Beam area) that kicks in about 25 miles north of the Alabama (Roll Tide) state line. I've sent emails to the other Brad out in Denver SEVERAL times yet get no response....the issue is known but for some reason nobody feels the need to do anything about it. That's why my sales are down about 70% now and declining rapidly.....we refuse to tell folks to expect service of a quality we KNOW they won't get. I may be poor but I'm honest. 

Andy
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Really feel sorry for dealers like you Andy. Maybe you can file an insurance claim too for lost revenue.
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YouTube mostly, just short videos, like the one in the screen shot. A 5 minute review of a new rifle I am interested in - waited 15 minutes for two other form different youtube channels to load, never did, waited 15 for that one as well, no go.

No big deal if that's working as intended but, if it isn't, then maybe there is a solution. Should be able to do those videos at 240 res at least even out of priority data on unlimited plans IMHO.
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Could we get a Friday segment that explains some of the shapers (algorithms) used?
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Youtube basically stinks on VS2....it has gotten a little better but it is nowhere near what I used to experience on VS1 before it got over-filled. 

Andy
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I should probably clarify a bit. The progress bar barely keeps ahead of the play bar....so close at times that I just KNOW it is going to start buffering. 

Andy
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Viasat-1 didn't really get overfilled.  Now....they sold plans where one sub could now be the equivalent of 15 users.  So I think Viasat-1 could support 1 million users (they never came close to that).  I assume that would be at an allocation of 10GB/month (or less). 


So now Viasat-1 is overutilized because of Viasat constantly tweaking plans to make more $$$ out of existing subs.  That can only go on for a finite time.  That is why some investors are not exactly bullish on the future of residential satellite internet. 

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Same video now that I have Priority data again. 480 res as expected with Unlimited Silver. Just fine now, so it does look like an issue with the throttling when out of Priority data on an unlimited plan.

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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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As software engineers would say, working as designed - you were out of priority data and subject to both throttling of the detected video stream and then prioritization of that same video streaming. You were experiencing the cumulative effect of both - not to mention congestion with the non-video speed of 3 -5 Mbps originally noted.

Close reading of the unlimited data policy even suggests that will happen and can even happen when simply congested and not over the data threshold. It's a question of capacity not speed and how the capacity is managed.

At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the content provider is providing a lower priority to your slower connection - the content provider also has network management concerns and it takes two to tango.

Now that you've reset, the video stream is being throttled only (with no prioritization applied on top of that). I bet your overall speed is no longer 3-5 Mbps as originally stated and taking into account to your other post (i.e. no more prioritization) although probably experiencing some minimal congestion.

Throttling x prioritization x congestion  = train wreck

The only issue is Viasat's lack of capacity on Viasat-1 to handle usage during peak hours (and for some apparently extending to non-peak hours).  That leads to congestion and the typical results of congestion are queue backups (prioritization speaks to queue management and makes those backups worse for those being prioritized), packet loss (intentional dropping in an effort to relieve congestion and unless retransmission is properly handled by both sender and receiver can even increase congestion - dropped packets are a signal to each side to slow it down) and even blocking of new connections to a site.    
(Edited)
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Still, I don't think the VDE should be throttling below 1 Mbps on unlimited Silver, regardless of priority data remaining or not. If I have 3 Mbps, then video should still be 1 Mbps. Now if the beam were so busy at the time that I couldn't get even 1 Mbps for non video, I get that same less than 1 being the best I could get at the time but, video being throttled below 1 Mbps on Silver should never happen IMHO.

Even with just 3-5 Mbps overall speed, I should still get 1 Mbps on video.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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All they do is throttle to a maximum, it's still subject to all of the other things can influence the throughput rate - that's the reason it's touted as "at DVD quality typically 480p" - which is the new "up to" euphemism. Start thinking in terms of capacity not speed - the capacity isn't there during peak usage periods to service the users online regardless of data usage threshold status. Doesn't rally matter what you think should happen - it's reality. Everyone wants to take a shower at the same time and they'r wondering why there's no hot water.
(Edited)
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However, I have noticed that the speeds have been slow <1mbps even when the children are in school and the working adults are at work. If they can't provide enough hot water to take a shower then, what hope is there when there really is congestion.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Maybe if everybody stopped running speed tests which simply flood the pipeline while trying to prove that which we already know (it's slow), there'd be sufficient capacity left over ;)
 
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I don't even have the video craptimzer on and I still can't get 1Mbps during primetime with priority data.