May 24th, 5PM EDT
Posted 2 years ago
Stephen Rice, Champion
Stephen Rice, Champion
Stephen Rice, Champion
Raw numbers...
http://investors.viasat.com/news-releases/news-release-details/viasat-announces-fourth-quarter-and-f...
Slide presentation:
http://investors.viasat.com/static-files/cf361714-5558-47c5-9e11-ff364f5269bc
I'll wait for the transcript to be published at Seeking Alpha - it'll probably be available before the end of the buffering ;)
http://investors.viasat.com/news-releases/news-release-details/viasat-announces-fourth-quarter-and-f...
Slide presentation:
http://investors.viasat.com/static-files/cf361714-5558-47c5-9e11-ff364f5269bc
I'll wait for the transcript to be published at Seeking Alpha - it'll probably be available before the end of the buffering ;)
(Edited)
All you need to listen to is the Q & A portion. That is the non scripted part where info can be gleaned sometimes.
Stephen Rice, Champion
Great news! 98 percent of the beams are turned on! Moments before that, it was said that the spot beams aren't operational and the augmented beam is in operation. Confusing, eh?
(Edited)
Unfortunately, 98% of the beams are pointed at Perfectville - still having a population of one - but he's happy.
(Edited)
Such a load of double speak. Without the high density spot beams Viasat-2 is no better than Viasat-1 or the last Hughesnet bird. Just more of the same.
GabeU, Champion
Unfortunately, 98% of the beams are pointed at Perfectville - still having a population of one - but he's happy.That's beyond perfect. I love it! :)
GabeU, Champion
I wonder if they actually did change something to be able to make that statement (the 98%). Yesterday I had absolutely no service available. Today I check and I have this....
Welcome to Perfectville - population now 2! Dawn still resides in Unlimitedville just across the county line.
(Edited)
Well, the plans got worse for me. I now have the highly coveted 12Mbps 65GB Gold Plan for $200/month.
Yea. That will get a lot of takers.
Yea. That will get a lot of takers.
GabeU, Champion
Are those plans I'm seeing now (in the picture) on the ViaSat 1 or ViaSat 2? I don't know how to tell.
Yes ;)
None of us know anymore.
None of us know anymore.
(Edited)
High Density Spot Beams seem to work in Central Florida. Platinum 100MBps available for $150 3 months and then $200.
Apparently you have to buy the plan to find out what's in it... but based on another source I'm guessing that Viasat-2 is only unlimited plans at this time, while availability if any on Viasat-1 is limited to Liberty Plans. Just a WAG and some are wilder than others...
(Edited)
I can get the same plans as Gabe now and Liberty plans are no longer available to me. These are nothing but fake "unlimited" plans and not worth the price. No thanks. I ain't giving up my Freedom.
I can get the same plans as Gabe now and Liberty plans are no longer available to me. These are nothing but fake "unlimited" plans and not worth the price. No thanks. I ain't giving up my Freedom.
Actually, you have to wait until the installer shows up to find what you get.
I have been a proponent of Viasat, but this plan rollercoaster is pretty ridiculous. They change plan options like the weather. If you don't like what is offered, wait 15 minutes and it will change. No consistency, and makes no sense to the end user.
Andy, as a Viasat installer that has to satisfy customers, you have my sympathy.
I have been a proponent of Viasat, but this plan rollercoaster is pretty ridiculous. They change plan options like the weather. If you don't like what is offered, wait 15 minutes and it will change. No consistency, and makes no sense to the end user.
Andy, as a Viasat installer that has to satisfy customers, you have my sympathy.
Stephen Rice, Champion
From what I could understand, the antennas that aren't operating were supposed to provide signal for the spot beams. Those spot beams aren't operational because of the two antenna failures.
Moments later it was announced that 98 or 99 percent of the spot beams are activated. Maybe I understood it wrong, but it sounded pretty contradictory.
There was a big emphasis on revenue from airlines. I'm guessing those technologies don't rely on spot beams to work as designed.
Moments later it was announced that 98 or 99 percent of the spot beams are activated. Maybe I understood it wrong, but it sounded pretty contradictory.
There was a big emphasis on revenue from airlines. I'm guessing those technologies don't rely on spot beams to work as designed.
(Edited)
Sounds like you are saying that not much info came out about the actual technical problems or anything about the insurance claim?
Read my post above. What we learned was Viasat-2, as it was operationally designed, is a failure.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/b...
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/b...
(Edited)
That article doesn't make it sound like a failure at all and doesn't mention how most of the country still can't get on the best plans.
"Results of those sales efforts haven’t materialized at this point. Viasat’s residential subscriber base was flat at 576,000 customers for the quarter"
Let's see. Given the plan design and pricing offered for Viasat-2 across a lot of the country, how exactly do they plan on increasing the subscriber base?
Let's see. Given the plan design and pricing offered for Viasat-2 across a lot of the country, how exactly do they plan on increasing the subscriber base?
Bev, Champion
Well, by being slightly less than DirecTV and, calling the plans Unlimited, then convincing people that low res video is fine for them.
Yes, that works for my step son, biggest screen is a 19 inch TV and, he works long hours so, streams 1-2 hours each evening and, that usually on his phone, the TV is for a weekend movie. Bronze works for him.
I don't stream on my TV, I download for that or watch live and, 480 is fine for youtube and Twitch so, Silver works for me.
Where the new sales are going to come is if people get jobs or better paying ones and, can then afford internet in the sticks. In areas like mine, any internet is better than none and, satellite is the only option. Viasat still beats Hughes unless you're a die hard night own, then it's about equal.
They certainly can't expect a family making only 35,000 a year to fork out even 1200 of that for internet but, if that family makes 40,000 then they might do it. (35 is the average in my area.)
Yes, that works for my step son, biggest screen is a 19 inch TV and, he works long hours so, streams 1-2 hours each evening and, that usually on his phone, the TV is for a weekend movie. Bronze works for him.
I don't stream on my TV, I download for that or watch live and, 480 is fine for youtube and Twitch so, Silver works for me.
Where the new sales are going to come is if people get jobs or better paying ones and, can then afford internet in the sticks. In areas like mine, any internet is better than none and, satellite is the only option. Viasat still beats Hughes unless you're a die hard night own, then it's about equal.
They certainly can't expect a family making only 35,000 a year to fork out even 1200 of that for internet but, if that family makes 40,000 then they might do it. (35 is the average in my area.)
My sales are down well over 50%.....I call that a failure.
Andy
Andy
I had posted this a few weeks ago. I feel sorry for the dealers especially. You of all people know what the plan was.
Stephen Rice, Champion
Thank you for the earnings transcript. I thought it was very interesting when they compared the viasat 2 performance to viasat 1. viasat 1 had an expected 100GBps bandwidth but ultimately had a maximum bandwidth of 140GBps. The same may be true with viasat 2. They put out the 300GBps number as a "base case" to Wall Street, probably using a probabilistic model assuming a possibility of glitches like what occured. If everything goes perfectly, the real maximum bandwidth of ViaSat 2 is 400GBps and Wall Street loves the surprise..........which makes the 260GBps current bandwidth possibly a much bigger setback then let on and could better explain why all the plans have been altered so significantly.
It looks like the problems are in the high density spot beams supplying the bandwidth to the expected 50MBs and 100MBs plans. Ultimately, most of the country may be lucky to have performance that meets Hughesnet's 25MBps plans. I guess Hughesnet must be loving the ViaSat 2 failure. From what I can tell, very few customers are switching and they've had a year to scoop up customers in all the underserved locations while Viasat 2 withered on the vine.
It looks like the problems are in the high density spot beams supplying the bandwidth to the expected 50MBs and 100MBs plans. Ultimately, most of the country may be lucky to have performance that meets Hughesnet's 25MBps plans. I guess Hughesnet must be loving the ViaSat 2 failure. From what I can tell, very few customers are switching and they've had a year to scoop up customers in all the underserved locations while Viasat 2 withered on the vine.
They claim over 10,.000 new subs on Viasat-2.
I'm sure that a decent % of these new subs are people in the Small beam areas whose addresses have been black-listed by the cable companies due to repeated non-payment and disconnects. They get a flyer from Viasat and say "hey kids, were get'in internet again". I predict the churn rate is going to be through the roof.
You've got good, solid sales and then you have just sales. There are a lot of "just sales" going on right now.
Andy
You've got good, solid sales and then you have just sales. There are a lot of "just sales" going on right now.
Andy
It was tens of thousands of subscribers as I read it - not necessarily new subscribers. Balance it against the fact (also reported yesterday) that overall subscriber count was down slightly at 576000 vs. 577000 three months ago - we don't know the mix of new vs. existing subscribers on Viasat-2 but the bleeding has slowed at least.
(Edited)
Nothing like was anticipated. The high density spot beams were going to be the real "cash cow" for Viasat-2 to pull customers from bad DSL and Hughesnet. Without them, they are not going to grow their customer base like they had hoped.
IF they want to get people on 2, offer Freedom 150 nationwide for $99.
IF they want to get people on 2, offer Freedom 150 nationwide for $99.
(Edited)
Stephen Rice, Champion
Stephen Rice, Champion
I read the Echostar (Hughesnet) earnings call. It's very interesting how Hughesnet is growing their business at a very aggressive rate while Viasat whithers on the vine with decreasing subscribers. Perhaps the plan is to let Hughesnet scoop up all the customers until their Gen5 is at capacity and they shut down beams so ViaSat becomes the only option?
It's very interesting how Hughesnet has supposedly less bandwidth yet they somehow have double the customers ViaSat has and is experiencing accelerated growth.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4172607-echostars-sats-ceo-michael-dugan-q1-2018-results-earnings-c...
As mentioned earlier, our total consumer base of retail, wholesale and SME subs was approximately 1.267 million as of March 31, 2018 compared to 1,043,000 as of March 31, 2017. We had net adds of approximately 59,000 subs in Q1 compared to approximately 7,500 net adds in the same quarter last year. These metrics do not include subscribers that are partners, Xplornet in Canada and StarGroup in Mexico, provide service through since these are capacity sales, but they do add to our revenue and earnings.
It's very interesting how Hughesnet has supposedly less bandwidth yet they somehow have double the customers ViaSat has and is experiencing accelerated growth.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4172607-echostars-sats-ceo-michael-dugan-q1-2018-results-earnings-c...
As mentioned earlier, our total consumer base of retail, wholesale and SME subs was approximately 1.267 million as of March 31, 2018 compared to 1,043,000 as of March 31, 2017. We had net adds of approximately 59,000 subs in Q1 compared to approximately 7,500 net adds in the same quarter last year. These metrics do not include subscribers that are partners, Xplornet in Canada and StarGroup in Mexico, provide service through since these are capacity sales, but they do add to our revenue and earnings.
Well... Viasat would say they stress quality over quantity. They sell plans for north of $150 And $200. Does Hughesnet even have that expensive of plans? Don't get me wrong, I think Viasat is pricing themselves out of the market, but their focus the last several months is to get more $$$$ from existing customers than to attract new customers.
On the Echostar earnings call, they say they are experiencing decreased churn on their plans which are unlimited like Viasat. Their top Gen5 plan is $129.99 25mbps with 100GB cap 50GB/50GB split between normal hours and their 2AM-8AM overnight zone. FAP is said to be 1-3mbps.
That is better than what viasat 2 can provide in most of the country right now, no?
That is better than what viasat 2 can provide in most of the country right now, no?
In terms of top speed, yes. But I wouldn't use the words "unlimited plans" to describe either provider.
Well, I am one of the Suckers out there.. I jumped on Viasat before V2 was ready, with the wing and a prayer..
To this day.. I have no, none, nada access to Viasat 2.. I have a very High Bill until my contract it up and still going on three months, I still cannot get the resolution promised for Netflix..
I try to stay positive, but over all Viasat has ultimately failed me with what has been been promised, and failing even more for what I am paying for to be delivered..
It is only made worse by all the stuff they keep boosting and proudly posting to the public about their company.. Truly I want to believe them, and I would love to be Proud of been a Viasat Customer.. but sadly I do not feel Viasat is to proud to have me as a customer.
FYI,, David on their team is still Awesome..
To this day.. I have no, none, nada access to Viasat 2.. I have a very High Bill until my contract it up and still going on three months, I still cannot get the resolution promised for Netflix..
I try to stay positive, but over all Viasat has ultimately failed me with what has been been promised, and failing even more for what I am paying for to be delivered..
It is only made worse by all the stuff they keep boosting and proudly posting to the public about their company.. Truly I want to believe them, and I would love to be Proud of been a Viasat Customer.. but sadly I do not feel Viasat is to proud to have me as a customer.
FYI,, David on their team is still Awesome..
Thanks for the update Ricky. I had wondered how you were getting along.
Just remember. There is what is said in a corporate earnings call and then there is reality.
Just remember. There is what is said in a corporate earnings call and then there is reality.
We are committed to serving the best interests of our shareholders.
http://investors.viasat.com/investor-relations
The residential section is treated worse than a step-child, more like a
foster-care kid.
The bandwidth needed to fulfill a firm delivery contract is
always taken from the "wasted" bandwidth used by the residential
customers. It's seen as wasted because they are under no obligation to
deliver to us. We, the residential customers, are the users of
un-allocated bandwidth not yet reserved by a firm delivery contract. We
are where ViaSat trims the resources to deliver to them that will get their
purchased speed.
The ViaSat load forecasters see VS2 being filled with contracts. They must discourage residential from going there to keep the resources available in the future for the firm contracts (pigs at the table). We are a nuisance to them, we are bottom-feeders.
So will we ever get a complete and honest explaination about what exactly happened to VS2? Or is an “on orbit antenna issue that won’t effect anything “ be all we will ever hear? On another note investment firms warned that Viasat was a bad investment stating that everyone who wants satellite internet already had satellite internet and that the residential market is completely saturated. Is this why new subscribers aren’t materializing?
Bev, Champion
I'd have to agree on the subscribers issue, unless there is, in the future, some sort of permanently subsidized plan for low income rural residents, there aren't going to be many new subscribers.
I know several families in the woods around here that, were it affordable for them, would have satellite internet but, when you make only 1200.00 a month and have to support a family of 4-6 on that, even 50.00 is too much for internet for them.
Most tell me that if it were 19.99, like dial up used to be out here, then they'd get it, even if that was only 10 Gb at DSL speeds - they could do email and FaceBook without going to town and, the kids could use it for school instead of coming to my house to use my internet in the case of two of my grandkids. (And no I'm not paying their Viasat bill, I already pay their DirecTV and the cell phone for the older of the two.)
I know several families in the woods around here that, were it affordable for them, would have satellite internet but, when you make only 1200.00 a month and have to support a family of 4-6 on that, even 50.00 is too much for internet for them.
Most tell me that if it were 19.99, like dial up used to be out here, then they'd get it, even if that was only 10 Gb at DSL speeds - they could do email and FaceBook without going to town and, the kids could use it for school instead of coming to my house to use my internet in the case of two of my grandkids. (And no I'm not paying their Viasat bill, I already pay their DirecTV and the cell phone for the older of the two.)
Well despite what they say, the plan design being sold in many parts of the country says Viasat-2 has more issues than being revealed.
Actions speak louder than words. When the highest plan available at my location is a 65GB $200 12Mbps plan.... that isnt as good a plan as I had available BEFORE Viasat-2.
Actions speak louder than words. When the highest plan available at my location is a 65GB $200 12Mbps plan.... that isnt as good a plan as I had available BEFORE Viasat-2.
Is this why new subscribers aren’t materializing?New residential subs are being discouraged using price and plan qualities that make new residential subscriptions unattractive to all but the most foolhardy or desperate.
Government contracts pay more per GB than we do so who would they rather sell to? ViaSat is proper to sell big data contracts, but we are entitled by virtue of our monthly payments to a specific percentage of the satellite capability that is only for us and it should never be infringed on to sell to a higher bidder, otherwise, ViaSat should announce they DO NOT service residential and that is that. If ViaSat continues to sell to residential, ViaSat should never over-sell the residential bandwidth availability either. When peak load reaches about 100% (of the reserved bandwidth that should be in place for residential), no new subs should be added unless time-of-use incentives are put in place to encourage customers to use data at off-peak times, and never penalize customers use during peak hours. Use better incentives as needed to control peak hours demand, such as daytime free zones.
Available bandwidth can be mapped out just like the radio spectrum but showing who has what bandwidth allocated to each contract. When the slots are all filled in, where is residential? We remain the abandoned orphans. We get the "congestion" excuse so we blame each other for our poor performance which is mis-directed with purpose. The bread-crumbs into the woods trick has worked very well for ViaSat, they lead us to a false reason for our poor performance and we are assumed to be none-the-wiser about what they do to us.
In the latest earnings call, ViaSat was keen about mentioning residential subs can now get 100Mbps in select areas but failed to say how many markets have that speed or where they are, leaving the investors to assume just about everywhere, so they are also being duped. The treatment residential gets from ViaSat is very much like cities claiming how they plan to help the homeless.
The shattered promises and mis-leading false-hopes of ViaSat-2 has caused me to loose all respect for ViaSat. I now see them as nothing more than a "Typical New York Corporation." Yes, they are committed to serving the best interests of their shareholders, and will happily show the income residential is providing, but will NEVER show how our service is pitifully slow and the truth of why it is this way.
Watch the YouTube video "Viasat 30th Anniversary" and at the end, tell me you believe a single word of it. Here it is...
People in the outback may be disappointed in the near future.
I think J&J hits it on the head. Interesting change of course though as he has been a very big supporter. ViaSat is a fine company. They do not see residential as the future of the company. Probably a very smart move for the business. They could have owned the residential side.
I have said in the past that when ViaSat is wrong I will bring attention to that situation but if they are right, I'll defend them to the wall. Nothing about me has changed. So far, nobody at ViaSat has come here to say that I'm wrong in any part of what I posted earlier.
Fair enough.
J&J absolutely nailed it and said many things that I would probably get a "don't say that anymore" email for saying.
Andy
Andy
Glad you do post Andy. The old forum had a dealer from Tennessee who always was knowledgeable and shared advice. Alas, he refused to join this site.
JimCoe? He was here but haven't seen him in a while... probably gave up after one exchange I recall in particular where he offered some help and was then immediately slammed by the individual idiot requesting the help - a lot of helpful members have left for that very reason.
(Edited)
Yea. That was his name! Good guy.
Stephen Rice, Champion
And just like that, Viasat 2 is available in my area including the Platinum plan for $200 a month.
!!! PFM !!!
What was previously available? Nothing? Liberty?
Grats to you,, I am still in a V2 Free zone..
Still "SOS" in 46936.
Stephen Rice, Champion
For a while my area only had unlimited plans available on VS1. Then everything was switched back to Liberty plans.
I'm already on a good VS1 beam and am extremely happy with my Liberty 12 plan.
I have no desire to switch to VS2 and based on what Andy said, it would be a huge gamble to switch to VS2. I'm staying put.
The whole VS2 thing is confusing to me anyway.
According to the earnings call, none of the spot beams are working since they rely on the two antennas that didn't deploy. Moments later it was announced that 98 or 99 percent of the spot beams are activated.
I trust Andy more than I trust Viasat.
I'm already on a good VS1 beam and am extremely happy with my Liberty 12 plan.
I have no desire to switch to VS2 and based on what Andy said, it would be a huge gamble to switch to VS2. I'm staying put.
The whole VS2 thing is confusing to me anyway.
According to the earnings call, none of the spot beams are working since they rely on the two antennas that didn't deploy. Moments later it was announced that 98 or 99 percent of the spot beams are activated.
I trust Andy more than I trust Viasat.
(Edited)
Wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see that after an insurance settlement is reached that “new” ways will be found to maximize the capacity left.
Hmmmmmm.....
Stephen Rice, Champion
Sounds like a lawyer nightmare.
They’ll make more money off ViaSat 2 than anyone ever thought.
Not through residential customers.
True. The Large Beams have very little capacity set aside for customers living in those areas. Had customers calling yesterday complaining that Netflix wouldn't ever load. Had my Wife try it here at the house and she said it took forever to load and even then the pq was terrible. Was told they would get on it after the holiday. I was ticked to say the least. So I told the customers the same thing I was told. I don't even try to "cover" for these companies anymore...Dish, DTV, etc. Customers will come in the store and say something like "XXXX company sucks!" To which I say "you think they suck for YOU being a customer.....you should try being a dealer for them". I usually am met with a blank stare.....people aren't used to hearing the truth.
The whole problem in my humble opinion is that the ones who set policy and implement decisions don't have to face the actual customer. I do. Anytime I've had one of my reps say "just say this or that" I respond that they are MORE than welcome to work here at my store for a week and do it themselves....never have had a taker.
Andy
The whole problem in my humble opinion is that the ones who set policy and implement decisions don't have to face the actual customer. I do. Anytime I've had one of my reps say "just say this or that" I respond that they are MORE than welcome to work here at my store for a week and do it themselves....never have had a taker.
Andy
True. The Large Beams have very little capacity set aside for customers living in those areas. Had customers calling yesterday complaining that Netflix wouldn't ever load. Had my Wife try it here at the house and she said it took forever to load and even then the pq was terrible. Was told they would get on it after the holiday. I was ticked to say the least. So I told the customers the same thing I was told. I don't even try to "cover" for these companies anymore...Dish, DTV, etc. Customers will come in the store and say something like "XXXX company sucks!" To which I say "you think they suck for YOU being a customer.....you should try being a dealer for them". I usually am met with a blank stare.....people aren't used to hearing the truth.
The whole problem in my humble opinion is that the ones who set policy and implement decisions don't have to face the actual customer. I do. Anytime I've had one of my reps say "just say this or that" I respond that they are MORE than welcome to work here at my store for a week and do it themselves....never have had a taker.
Andy
The whole problem in my humble opinion is that the ones who set policy and implement decisions don't have to face the actual customer. I do. Anytime I've had one of my reps say "just say this or that" I respond that they are MORE than welcome to work here at my store for a week and do it themselves....never have had a taker.
Andy
Sounds like you got a lot of challenges ahead of you as a dealer.
It has to be incredibly frustrating to want to provide customer satisfaction but to be at the mercy of others that have to support you.
It has to be incredibly frustrating to want to provide customer satisfaction but to be at the mercy of others that have to support you.
You can say that again.....and the way my post are being double-posted....I probably will.
Andy
Andy
Considering that Viasat can't fix the problems with this crappy forum, I wouldn't expect them to fix anything with their degrading service. At the very least, they should bring back the old Wildblueworld forum, which was much more user friendly and much easier to navigate.
And they had an ignore button, for people like that spammer yesterday.
Maybe Viasat will just sell their residential subs to Hughesnet and focus on military and commercial customers in the air. I cpuld see that happening given their stagnant customer base, losing the Eutelsat deal, and Viasst-2 not going to reach its potential.
Maybe Viasat will just sell their residential subs to Hughesnet and focus on military and commercial customers in the air. I cpuld see that happening given their stagnant customer base, losing the Eutelsat deal, and Viasst-2 not going to reach its potential.