upgraded to Silver and not getting 480p

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Hi,

I upgraded to Silver the other day specifically so that we could stream Google Play at 480p.  Before the upgrade, we could stream at 360p.  We are still only able to stream at 360p without buffering.  We watched a movie Sunday night and 480p was working fine.

Conditions:

10:40pm tuesday night in Hawaii.

movie won't stream at 480p.  same result whether we watch it in Google Play or YouTube.  plays for maybe 10 seconds, buffers, repeat.

no applications but browser open.  tried both FireFox and Chrome.

no other computers on the connection.

using network cable not wifi.


thanks,
JC


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crystal3tech .

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Posted 7 months ago

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aabbcc

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So..., how's your Verizon coverage...?  I see some dead spots, and I know the map isn't 100% accurate, but coverage looks decent there....  (as @jab mentioned, you possibly have options if you have service)
(Edited)
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Jab

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@all

T-Mobile - "In addition, many of our plans use video streaming optimization when connected to the cellular network to deliver a DVD quality (typically 480p) video experience at up to 1.5Mbps with minimal buffering while streaming."

SEPTEMBER 4, 2018 - Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint unlimited plans comparison

AT&T's Unlimited &More plan limits you to standard-definition video with streaming speeds capped at 1.5 Mbps and doesn't include hotspot data.
==========

VZW - Music streaming is limited to 1.5Mbps,
Sprint - videos up to 1080p and music up to 1.5 Mbps
==================

Conclusion. 
Typical 480p video, as based upon Wireless Carriers, is around 1.5Mbps

If Viasat claims typical 480p represents a 1.1Mbps stream...its clear their opinion is without merit, as based upon wireless industry practices.

So, can anyone confirm Viasat is claiming 1.1Mbps is 480p quality?  I figured it was 360p quality.
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Casual Observer

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It's all empirical evidence gathered here, however, HughesNet appears to agree (click to enlarge):



or read it for yourself: https://www.hughesnet.com/about/hughesnet-gen5

Gotta keep pace with the competition ;)

480p is DVD quality. As noted previously, it is possible at 1.1 Mbps dependent on the content itself (typical is a fuzzy term).

In fact, any quality can be delivered over any "speed" - just be prepared for excessive buffering, pausing. Buffering always occurs - it's a question of whether it's buffering fast enough to keep up with playback.  Those aren't video quality issues but rather quality of experience issues as the "legal" team will undoubtedly argue. It used to be that we could simply manually pause, wait for the video to sufficiently buffer or even completely download and then watch it - now it's all automatic/adaptive - some progress huh? 

Occasionally (rare like once in a blue moon), I even see spikes to 1.8 Mbps on fast.com. Ask your ISP - NRTC. Viasat is under no obligation to provide us (NRTC subscribers) withe support except through NRTC.

I believe that both Viasat and HughesNet are incorrectly referencing the typical video encoding bitrate for 480p - not the bandwidth needed to stream it smoothly - they need to bump there throttling up to account for the overhead associated with streaming as well as transient network conditions. 
(Edited)
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Casual Observer

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FWIW, the official/legal terminology used in the Unlimited Data Policy is:

"DVD Quality, typically up to 480p"

Lots o' room to wiggle wiggle off the hook there - just about anything matches that and it's been that way since at least May of last year.

Oh well, we've been bamboozled...
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Jab

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@CO...Lots o' room to wiggle

I haven't taken time to fully read FCC's and FTC's "fine print," but Snake Oil Sales Speak would not be allowed.

AT&T and T-Mobile have defined  SD/480p at upto 1.5Mbps.  Sprint/VZW, I haven't found specific video rate defined, yet, but they both say 1.5Mbps for music, and this article, SEPTEMBER 4, 2018 suggests 480p quality,

This would be a good story for an investigative reporter, or to explain to FCC/FTC how Viasat has redefined 480p/DVD concept. at 1.1Mbps (if true), whereas Wireless Industry at 1.5Mbps.

There is no wiggle room here....1.1Mbps vs 1.5Mbps....it don't take a weather man to know which way the wind blows.  Viasat is not in sync with Wireless Industry's speak, nor within defined standards by broadcast/video industries.  Explaining to FTC/FCC, or an investigative reporter about this skewing of concepts/speeds would be one means of them understanding, as it would be in a court room.

If Viasat's DVD quality vid rate is 1.1Mbps, then an investigative reporter could suggest to public that Viasat/Hughes are unscrupulous, when compared to practices within Wireless Carrier Industry. Parts of Viasat TV Commercial, 'What You've Been Waiting For, of course, would be reviewed for broadcast.  Comparisons of video watched at DVD "quality" between Hughes/Viasat versus Cell Companies would be expected also.

Hence, if one can establish upto 480p quality is different on satellite vs wireless, then FCC/FTC would have a toehold.

I seldom watch video on my smartphone....so I can't evaluate.  Nor do I have "standing" in this issue.  VZW offers 720p vid, and I can watch upto 720 vid on Exede without issues (LNFZ).
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GabeU, Champion

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Casual,

I wouldn't put too much stock into what is said about HughesNet's Gen5 in that picture.  Gen4 had great data compression.  With Gen5 it seems to be non existent, or at least it does for me and a few others who have noted the considerable increase in data usage the minute the upgrade from Gen4 happened.  

Normally I use only my desktop, connected via LAN cable, and with the WiFi completely disabled.  When I had Gen4 I would see a considerable difference between HughesNet's tally and Glasswire's, and always in my favor.  It was so much so that I actually wrote about it due to being so impressed.

https://getsatisfaction.com/hughesnet/topics/just-a-good-example-of-the-smart-technologies

Now, with Gen5, the two tallies are practically even.  A very noticeable difference.  Because I used so little data with Gen4 I was contemplating going down in my plan size from 15GB with Gen4 to 10GB with Gen5.  I'm glad that I instead chose to go with the 20GB plan, as 10GB would have NEVER been enough.  With my very first full month with Gen5 I used well over 10GB.  
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Interesting.
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Casual Observer

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I never put much stock in any marketing claims or anything I read on the Internet for that matter ;)
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I had rice for lunch.
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Casual Observer

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Now that I believe. I had a rice cake and a SlimFast.
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GabeU, Champion

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I had two burgers, some tater tots, a pudding cup and a Dr. Pepper.  
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Casual Observer

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You're obviously on that "You eat the food, you lose the weight" thing - I keep trying it, it ain't working.

For my Slimfast diet's 3 snacks - I chose medium pepperoni pizzas, extra cheese.
(Edited)
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GabeU, Champion

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Nah.  It was just a splurge day.  I don't normally eat that much.  I'm still only about 175, but it gets harder and harder to stay there.  I was nearly 240 twenty years ago.  
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crystal3tech .

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8:30pm Wed. night, FireFox with many tabs open, fast.com shows 1.1 Mbps.  Can't stream at 480p without buffering.  Using Viasat modem's wifi.

9:30pm Wed. night, Chrome with one tab open, fast.com shows 1.7 Mbps, YouTube is streaming at 480p... it auto-adjusted itself, first 360 then 480.  Using Viasat modem's wifi.
(Edited)
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Jab

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Crystal...WiFi modem can be set to a bridge mode, and then use a router with LAN/WiFi.  WiFi transmissions can have glitches, with slower speeds.

Related topic, using VZW's 6620L Jetpack's WiFi, on desktop's WiFi, less than 3Mbps UL at testmy.net, on Samsung S8, around 10Mbps upload.  Both are at same distance from Jetpack, and both have similar DL speeds.  Desktop's WiFi and Samsung's WiFi both have MIMO, but apparently desktop's WiFi does not do MIMO on uploading.  USB WiFi (AC1200 MU-MIMO USB 3.0 Adapter: EW-7822UTC) is what is used on desktop.

Using a LAN setup might make a difference...maybe not...
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Steve Frederick-VS1/Beam314, Champion

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What has happened to the Viasat forum? It has been hijacked by a few who are pushing the Verizon wireless plans and these things refereed to as "Jetpaks".
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Maybe because a number of Viasat customers are finding it performs better than Viasat? Cheaper, faster, and just as unlimited.

Too early for me to make that call yet. But a lot of this came about due to the policy changes. Got people (like me) looking at viable alternatives. Hey, I wouldn't be doing that if I wouldn't be getting 300kbps or lower every evening. Yea, I could change my Viasat plan. But I need to research and and all alternatives before I know what is best for me.

I know there are Viasat dealers doing the same for their customers. No names, please.
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Jab

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@Steve

I am suggesting Viasat's "DVD Quality" should be evaluated in terms of Wireless Industry's practices.

In recent news Steve - "A bipartisan group of US senators are trying to force the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to face up to the reality that its statistics for broadband speeds across America aren't worth squat."

So Steve, I believe 1.1Mbps is not the same as 1.5Mbps, with both being called "DVD Quality"  I also believe Viasat has been shifting beam bandwidth from consumer side to commercial aircraft side since more/more aircraft have been contracted to use 1-Gbit/sec sat receivers.  No conspiracy here Steve, just bean count a beam's total bandwidth available.

Steve, in this statement,

"DVD Quality, typically up to 480p"

would you suggest that DVD quality is lower than 480p....above suggests DVD quality below 480p.  Isn't it strange that AT&T, T-Mobile, and even Hughes have stated video rates of 1.5Mbps, 1.5Mbps, and 1.1Mbps, respectively, but Viasat-to my awareness-has not.  What is DVD quality vid rate on Viasat Steve?
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aabbcc

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Someone "needing" 480p, not able to get it on the plan that says "up to" 480p.  As I've said many times, someone should be aware of any potential options they have.  Both current and prospective customers.  Someone says they have cell service, but may or may not know about a plan, especially something that allows 720p video and no data caps, and no contract, should at least know about the plan.  Might want to look, might not, might work, might not.  Might want to replace with that plan, or keep both like many.  But, the suggestion is valid.  I'd think Viasat would rather have satisfied customers, rather than customers that aren't getting what they want.

Seems equally overrun by people repeatedly complaining that aren't capable of skipping comments they don't like to read but that the moderators allow.
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crystal3tech .

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Late last night (Wed. night) we streamed a movie on Youtube at 480p no problem ... using Chrome.

Here's my test results for this morning...

Surprise - evidence shows that the bottleneck is in FireFox.

This morning I tested both Chrome and Firefox.  It didn't matter if I used the built-in wifi of the Viasat modem or a network cable.

I did have a lot of tabs open in Firefox, so I closed them all.  Youtube would not stream at 480p.  I tried multiple times... all the same result.  fast.com was showing 1.1 Mbps.

During all my testing this morning, fast.com was showing consistently right around 1.1 Mbps, run from either Firefox or Chrome.  I can conclude now that Viasat keeps this rate right around 1.1 Mbps no matter what time of the day – at least I can say this about morning and evening... I don't know about middle of the night.

Chrome will consistently stream Youtube at 480p.  In one test, fast.com was showing 1.0 Mbps, and the Youtube test barely worked at 480p, but it did work.  It appears that 1.1 Mbps is the threshold for streaming 480p ... using Chrome.
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Jab

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Crystal

Latest Chrome, 72.0.3626.119 (Official Build) (64-bit), has video decode built in, if your video card supports it.  This topic involves detective work, but one can Google "Firefox's video decoding" Too many variations...type of computer, age, video card, updates, OS used, etc.  And yes, Chrome might be better optimized to play Youtube.

Here's a vid to try....lower right corner, set video resolution to 360p.  Without video card decode, my Win7 can't play this without buffering at 1080p on Viasat's browser, but on Chrome and Waterfox, no issues.


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crystal3tech .

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For some reason Chrome is working better, and that's fine with me... I will use Chrome for streaming videos.

I'm unfollowing the thread now... will post again if anything changes.
(Edited)
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Jab

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Jul. 25th 2018  YouTube is five times faster on Google Chrome over Firefox and Edge according to Mozilla executive
...
...

According to Chris Peterson, a Technical Program Manager at Mozilla, YouTube’s performance on Mozilla’s own Firefox as well as Microsoft Edge is about 5 times slower compared to that of Google Chrome (via Neowin). He explains in a thread on Twitter that this can be attributed to Google’s recent redesign of the service using the Polymer library.

Peterson further points out that the specific reason for the slower performance in other browsers is due to this design relying on the deprecated Shadow DOM v0 API. That API is only implemented in Chrome.


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Brandon Fisher

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this could always be the connection you get be thankful your getting that some of us are in such a bad area that congestion on the old unlimited plans is impossible to use
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Jab

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@Brandon

Interesting latency....Redux, "In Nov. 2006, WB decided to use traffic shaping technology by VIASAT called DAMA. The pings went from 600-800 to 1100-1300+."


Demand Assigned Multiple Access (DAMA) ...I wonder, did they engage it again?

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Jab

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Brandon Fisher

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yeah i do not understand the latency thing i wish to hell my latency was that low on sat ignore it it is some kind of bug we all know its no where close to that but the speeds are certainly real. also you know your beam is bad when your upload is slower than isdn speeds because thats hardly ever lower than 1mbps.
(Edited)
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Jab

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I checked another person's latency, just now, and yours is much higher than his.  I have no idea if you have a router, and if QOS is engaged, but QOS should be turned off. 

With no other active devices (computers/etc) online, try this test via LAN based computer: https://www.nperf.com/en/

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Brandon Fisher

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this is what im getting now upload seems to have went back up but download has not changed at all
(Edited)
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Jab

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Those on 150GB plans on VS-1 are apparently being throttled down on DL side; if VS-2 was available, my understanding, they are not throttling down, or if another plan with lower GBs was taken, DL speeds would be back to normal.

Sidebar...test was done at Mountain View, WY, which is a small town out in middle of nowhere, 1,286 at the 2010 census.  That test suggests they have a 1 Gbit/sec connection...there must be a transcontinental fiber line nearby them...maybe nearby I-80 interstate road.
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Jab

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Footnote - Your Jitter on that test measured VS's equipment...3.5ms, where mine may have been based upon SB2 modem...92ms.

Which beam might one be on?  In a pure solid color...not near boundary line?