Something is rotten in Denmark (Denver)

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  • Updated 1 year ago
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  • (Edited)

To paraphrase Shakespeare, something is rotten in Denver.

I have noticed for a while now that we have seen nothing from our very worthwhile and knowledgeable contributor, Old Labs.

So I went to his profile, which has been removed!

This appears to have occurred just after Andy's profile was removed by Denver.

Perhaps Old Labs self removed as a protest to Andy's removal. Perhaps there is something deeper than this.

One thing is obvious to me. Denver protects the disruptive losers on this forum and runs off the valuable contributors.

Ivan pointed this out a few days ago with a poignant and accurate cartoon, ridiculing Denver's censorship. Within minutes, Ivan's post was removed by Denver. 
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Mohammad Hussein al-Baghdadi

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Posted 1 year ago

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John Postizzi

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I wonder how many other valuable contributors like Old Labs have left this forum? We will probably never know.
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Jim16

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Looks like the same thing that happened to Andy when you click on his profile.  I would think Old Labs would have said something before leaving voluntarily. 
(Edited)
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Lizzie, Viasat Official Rep

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Hi everyone!

I can confirm that nobody on our side, to my knowledge, deleted Old Labs profile; he must have removed himself from the forum.

We do retain the right to make judgment calls and delete any image or post that violates our forum rules in order to keep this a place where everyone is welcome.  You're welcome to take a rules refresher if you'd like by looking at them here.

I'd like to think there's nothing rotten in the state of Denver, besides the smell of Stinky, the corpse flower that just bloomed at the Denver Botanic Gardens, because that was for sure a stinker.

Thanks!

(Edited)
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Michael McDowell

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So Lizzie,

Does Viasat ban users from this forum? 

Yes, but rarely. Users who have persistently used profanity, acted abusively, posted spam or done similar things will be banned. Administrators may decide to reactivate banned users after a day or two. Users who repeatedly break the rules may be banned permanently. 

Can you tell us which of these rules Andy Schack violated that got him banned?  AFAIK, he did NONE of the things listed above!
(Edited)
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Lizzie, Viasat Official Rep

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Hi Michael, 

Sometimes situations fall outside of these rules. We do not take suspending users lightly. If you have any questions, feel free to email us at viasatlistens@viasat.com -- they can look out for your email, and escalate any concerns  you may have to the appropriate parties. 

Thanks.


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Michael McDowell

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So it is possible to get banned for breaking rules that aren't even posted anywhere?
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Jim16

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Viasat owns, runs and pays for this forum.  They have the right and power to do anything they want with it.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Jim said it all right there. Unless you are paying for the forum, you don't make the rules.

I've posted some pretty silly stuff on here. Somehow I've never been banned. I did lose my champion status for a while when I posted a highly offensive YouTube video. That's the closest I ever came to being banned.

Shoot, the 30 days of facts thread i made a while back was created by me as a pure joke. I wasn't trying to kiss butt on it and even made fun of Viasat several times. What's weird is after I poked fun at Viasat installers, I was granted champion status again. That was a surprise to me, but I'll accept a gold star any day.

I'll never figure out this forum, but I do know that I love my Liberty 12 plan. I'm about to watch Smokey and the Bandit thanks to my virtually unlimited Liberty 12 plan.
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Michael McDowell

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Ok, so you Guys think they did the right thing when they banned Andy?  Was he being just a little too helpful?  Don't know that he broke any of the rules that they POSTED! Did he?
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GabeU, Champion

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Whether we may agree or disagree with a person being banned, or the reason for that banning, ViaSat has the right to do so if they feel there is a reason for it.   
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GabeU, Champion

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Whether we may agree or disagree with a person being banned, or the reason for that banning, ViaSat has the right to do so if they feel there is a reason for it.   
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Ivan Bludnik

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"ViaSat has the right to do so if they feel there is a reason for it." 
Yes they do. In fact they have a right to do so even if they do not have a reason for it.

However that misses the point completely.

The point is that Viasat customers have a right to start their own independent forum if they feel their needs are not being met by the Viasat forum. There are many forums that are run by users. It just takes one ambitious energetic person to get the ball rolling.

Chasing away valuable contributors is no way to run a forum.

Maybe some anointed one will step forward.

VetSatUser or Old Labs would be perfect for this. How much money does it take to host a forum? Speaking of VetSatUser, you have been eerily quiet lately. Has Old Labs' departure spooked you?



(Edited)
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GabeU, Champion

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However that misses the point completely.
My reply was to what was said in Michael McDowell's post.  No point was missed.  
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Michael McDowell

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Yeah, not questioning WHETHER they have the right to ban someone  who might have broken some rule that wasn't even posted. Just questioning whether it was the  RIGHT THING TO DO!  

My guess is that Andy was banned because he just happened to be a Viasat dealer as well as a Viasat customer and they were afraid that he had too much credibility as such.
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Jim16

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I doubt Viasat banned Andy because they thought it was the WRONG thing to do.  Your "right" and their "right" don't have to be the same.  My only issue with it is the ban makes it appear Andy was doing illegal installs, and it would be nice to clear that up with a comment from the Mods.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.

I didn't realize Old Labs was gone until I got an email from another ex poster.

Knowing Old Labs, I am sure he was frustrated when one of the most valuable posters on this site was no longer here. There were also other valuable posters on the old forum that were great, and they never made the jump over here.

This site is only as good as the quality of its content. If people can't come here to get help or find answers, what value does it have?
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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No tin foil hats required, it was self initiated - but I share Chaim's frustration with this format that he noted below. Real solutions and answers are frequently lost in all of the white noise here.

While I disagree with Andy's suspension and the manner in which it was handled in public, as a dealer he has information that should remain confidential and not be aired in public. It should have been handled privately... but at least it wasn't an anonymous op-ed in the Times.
(Edited)
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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I guess the rumors of your demise were greatly exaggerated too.

I will stickup for Andy. At least he is trying to help people and give advice versus send an email here and we will get back to you.

Most frustrating part of Viasat support is there is no sharing of problem resolution. For people that have similar problems, share what worked! We are all just trying to make the best of our seevice.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Never said Andy wasn't helpful (he always was/is) but as as a dealer he's subject to a different set of rules than the rest of us here and sort of backed the powers that be into a corner - a private warning, reminder and removal of the perceived offending post would have sufficed. 

https://www.exede.com/documents/master/dealer-agreement.pdf
(Edited)
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Andy might no longer be able to post here, but doesn't mean he is not aware of what is being posted here.

I know what you are saying about an agreement, but things should be a two way street. When you have a good tech person "in the field" so to speak (not to mention an Elite dealer that supports your product), you might want to listen and work with him to solve issues. Continue to read people with Viasat-2 problems at times. That is not unexpected with a new product. So good quality feedback is a must. And it doesn't have to be here in the public, but don't alienate a stakeholder in the company who can help make your product better.
(Edited)
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sherryanne

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Well said.
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Bradley

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Can someone share a link to above mentioned publicized suspension? I’d like to read without too much sifting of nonsensical postings to draw my own conclusion.
(Edited)
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GabeU, Champion

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Bradley,

I'm pretty sure that the discussion that resulted in the suspension is here.
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Bradley

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Thank you.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Andy wasn't suspended for helping anyone or simply providing feedback - he offered advice in the hoodwinked thread contrary to Viasat's public moving policy. The issue isn't whether that's an unofficial policy which can be circumvented by contacting one's dealer, but rather whether it should have been offered in a public forum by be viewed as a "representative" of Viasat. MattB incorrectly responded in public IMHO (although I only found the last two paragraphs questionable and perhaps uncalled for), Andy responded and then responded again and a hockey fight broke out and we are left to draw our own conclusions regarding the private parts of that exchange.

Airing dirty laundry in public rarely ends well regardless of good intentions.

As noted elsewhere if that "unofficial" moving policy is in fact acceptable, make it official and publicize it - it should be rather than apparently some back room gentleman's agreement between dealers in some meeting with wink, wink, nudge, nudge approval. Now we are left with it unanswered as being a "moving" option.

Andy should not have posted the info publicly (if a subscriber had posted contact your dealer it would be a different story) and had Matt B simply deleted the offending reply and handled in privately, few would have even noticed it and we would not be having this discussion.
(Edited)
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Andy wasn't suspended for helping anyone or simply providing feedback - he offered advice in the hoodwinked thread contrary to Viasat's public moving policy. The issue isn't whether that's an unofficial policy which can be circumvented by contacting one's dealer, but rather whether it should have been offered in a public forum by be viewed as a "representative" of Viasat. MattB incorrectly responded in public IMHO, Andy responded and then responded again and a hockey fight broke out and we are left to draw our own conclusions regarding the private parts of that exchange as this appears to have been festering for quite some time.

Airing dirty laundry in public rarely ends well regardless of good intentions.

As noted elsewhere if that "unofficial" moving policy is in fact acceptable, make it official and publicize it - it should be rather than apparently some back room gentleman's agreement between dealers in some meeting with wink, wink, nudge, nudge approval. Now we are left with it unanswered.

Andy should not have posted the info publicly (if a subscriber had posted contact your dealer it would be a different story) and had Matt B simply deleted the offending reply and handled in privately, few would have even noticed it and we would not be having this discussion.
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Bradley

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Since you said it twice, I’m inclined to agree. :)
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Perhaps I should reinforce it and lend more credence to it using all caps - my bad not GetSatisfaction's ;)
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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As always, there are two sides to a story.

The bottom line is a valuable resource on this site is no longer here, and that is a loss.

Of course there is always DSLReports where I could go get the insight of one poster, if he wasnt blocked by me. Self censorship!
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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The bottom line is that Viasat doesn't have a sane moving policy when moving within the same beam, which is what precipitated all of this - instead Viasat wants to promote it as a "free" move under the condition of a new 24 month agreement. Address the bottom line, it never happens...

Simply allow subscribers moving within the same beam to contact their local dealer, pay for it and make the administrative change - we have computers and databases that can actually do that latter part in 2018 (well maybe that's not the case in Denver).

That's a suggestion - in fact most subscribers should have their local dealer/installer on speed dial.
(Edited)
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Michael McDowell

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Even a new 24 month contract wouldn't be SO bad if they allowed you to keep your current plan, if desired!
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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That is the BIG issue. I would do whatever to keep my grandfathered plan too!
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Michael McDowell

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Yep, it seems entirely arbitrary that you can't keep a current plan in that situation! 
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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I understand a beam to beam move, but with a beam?

Anyhow, on another note, haven't seen much out of Bev or J&J lately. Hope all is well with the regular posters.
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Chaim Isaac Lipschitz

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Given the complaints about the content of this forum, why doesn’t someone take the bull by the horns and start a more useful forum modeled after the previous Wildblue forum. I have no idea how much time or money that takes. There seem to be knowledgeable and qualified people on this forum who have the ability and time to do this.

I would like a forum that solves real technical issues. This forum is clearly influenced by the marketing people at Viasat to serve their interests. I don't think they know what they don't know.

The forum should be moderated by people with a technical background, just like the previous Wildblue forum. That forum was not broken so I don't know why Viasat felt a need to fix it. It must have been a political battle between marketing and technology as to who controls the forum.

To constantly advise people to email Viasat Listens is just a head fake.

I do not want this forum to be a repository for complainers, followed by minimization of their issues.

Many of the issues addressed here are result of improper installations and should be solved between Viasat, the customer, and the installer. These issues don't need to clog up a forum.

The previous Wildblue forum dealt with real technical issues. For the most part, these real technical issues have been absent from this forum. The complainers stayed away from that forum because they knew their issues would be misplaced.

It is conceptually wrong to think that a forum such as this should be an adjunct of marketing.

"Can someone pay my bill? does not belong in this forum.

"My installer stood me up" does not belong in this forum.

"Viasat sucks" does not belong in this forum.

However,

"What maximum coaxial cable length is recommended before I get signal degradation?" does belong in this forum.

"What is the latest software version for the Viasat modem?" does belong in this forum.

"What does "Brown out mode or Blue out mode enabled mean?" does belong in this forum.

"What are the best times to avoid congestion on beam xxx" does belong on this forum.







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Cassandra Rodd

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Your right find an alternative find out what make a product better
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Diana, Viasat Employee

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 Hello, Chaim Thank you for raising this matter to our attention. We will look into it.
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Bob Lexus

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Already another long term alternate site:

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/wildblue 
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Not really. That site is dominated by one poster, who I block to begin with. Lol
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fmj77

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The old Wildblueworld forum needs to be resurrected. This one is terrible as most of you will agree. Maybe name it Viasatworld?
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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The "unofficial" Wildblue/Exede/Viasat forum. Add a tips and tricks section. Include PlayOn instructions, data saving techniques, speed reports, etc.

Stephen, you run a Deloran board. Help!
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John Postizzi

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The obvious person to run an unofficial forum is you, VeteranSatUser, or Old Labs. You both have shown that you have knowledge and a desire to help with technical problems. You empathize with users, not the Viasat corporate suits. You don't have to be able to answer everything. You just have to keep the posts headed in the right direction.
Stephen is too attached at the hip to Viasat (sorry Stephen, I kind of like you but I have to call a spade a spade).

Maybe Viasat will donate seed money to you, recognizing the valuable technical contributions of your new forum while Viasat concentrated on satisfying the complainers in their marketing oriented forum.
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Bradley

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Seed money? Keep dreaming Alice. Good idea but corporations never sponsor forums they can’t directly control.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Venice has really stinky canals during the summer.
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Bradley

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All champions are not created equal.

My mind is forever soiled about Ramen Noodles. No forgiveness here :).
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Jim16

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Yes, that was a very disturbing video of Stephen being one with the noodles.  Let's watch it again!

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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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One thing about running ones own forum. Ban control!
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Y'all are some weird people. DMCToday.com is my forum.

I think I paid $300 for the vBulletin software and I have no clue what I pay my web host. I prepaid my hosting bill until sometime early next decade.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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I think I will post some random message on it on how I cant get my internet to work.