Restricted access

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  • Updated 4 years ago
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I could not upload anything to my web site today, i wanted to make a minor change but my FTP program kept getting rejected by the server as invalid. It was determined by the server that my problem was with the ISP Exede. I know they slow you down when you have used up the data allowance but I did not know they determined what you can upload and what you can't. This doesn't seem legal to me when they still allow downloads they control what a person uploads. I called Exede and they gave me another 5 Gb and I was able to upload again. When I upload it is very little data  and goes quickly. I wish I was made aware of this selective practice when I signed up, I probably would have made a different decision.
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Don Anderson Sr.

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Posted 4 years ago

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Starring Matter

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It's been stated, time and time again, by the exede employees, and validated by the more knowledgeable forum members, nothing is selectively blocked.  The drastically reduced speeds, in conjunction with the very high latency means many sites and webapps will not function properly, or at all.  
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Don Anderson Sr.

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Exede refused to ok the FTP connection to the server per technical support at GoDaddy..Period............ of which I doubt you have any expertise in or know anything about and apparently don't have much to do except read the post's here.
(Edited)
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Brian Shackelford

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Starring Matter -

Up until about November of last year I would have agreed with you, however I also have experienced these problems myself. I have been support work for business clients for 20 years and can affirm that when Dap'd a customer does indeed lose the ability to access some content and the ability to do some basic functions such as uploading files.

It used to be when DAP'd I could still browse sites, view content on facebook, and even occasionally view a youtube video albeit very slowly. Exede, per their very own terms of service agreement acknowledges they have the right to reduce the speed and / or block certain types of traffic at their discretion. This means that while the front line support technicians claim that they do not block any traffic, their assertions seem to be voided by the fact that after adding more bandwidth (thereby removing the DAP'd restrictions) suddenly these services and are again working properly.

Keep in mind these are services that work over a dial up connection. Prior to whatever changes were put in place late last year (probably in preparation for rolling out the Evolution / Freedom plans) I had no problem when DAP'd doing FTP, SSH, or Tenet sessions. In particular a Telnet or SSH session is very light on traffic and not something that requires much BW at all. All of these things work over a dialup connection. Once these changes were in place there were then occasions when even these basic unintensive data applications would not work. I didn't sweat it too much as I could add one of the 5 GB allocations from the giveaway and then it would work again. Now this is no longer the case.

My supposition is that Exede has been tweaking the Accelnet servers and traffic prioritization in such a way that DAP'd customers' traffic receives such low network prioritization that it basically gets dropped whenever there is even the slightest congestion on the network. This would allow Exede to say "we don't block traffic" while at the same time the network policies they have in place in effect do just that.

Now this is all just speculation since again no one has come online to confirm or deny these speculations and the only written document that is available are the written data access policy which was updated, oddly enough on December 5, 2014....hmm is that when folks started seeing these types of problems?

Let's hope the announcement from Exceed regarding new "something or anothers" comes out soon to address all of the "speculation" and debunks all of these "conspiracy theories" we users keep coming up with.

BTW - all of the above being said.....as long as I am able to stay within my cap I am happy with Exede's service except with it becomes very congested in the late afternoon-evening and I have some issues sometimes. On those days I just work later at the office.

My posts here are to support other users as well as try to try to get these issues settled out. I am frustrated like everyone else, at the same time I have no other good options so I also realize what I have is better that what I could have - which is basically nothing. Still that does not mean that those that are stuck with the service should not expect a certain level of usability.
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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Brian,

Yes the timing of the updates to the Data Allowance Policy coupled with the Network Management Policy (updated at the same time and more recently updated on 2/5/2015) seems coincidental. If memory serves, the inclusion of the "Lastly, traffic may be prioritized during periods of congestion based on subscribers’ service plans or data usage" wording seems to be the most noticeable change to the Network Management policy.

Reading both and to me, it seems that they were specifically aimed at the new Net Neutering Neutrality regulations, giving at least some credence to the opponent's arguments against them as "we the sheeple" continue to think they are being adopted for our benefit. As I continue to a cursory review of the new regulations, it appears on the surface that ViaSat is now compliant with them and ready to stave off any challenges that they aren't. Oh well... how'd that work out? It even appears some of the staunch supporters of the new regulations are walking back some of their support, but once again we had to pass them to find out what was in them.      

It's both ViaSat policies together (as well as the other legal documents to a lesser extent)  impacting everyone but more so those who are dapped. 
(Edited)
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david, Champion

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Just my uneducated opinion, but I don't think that anyone is being singled out or some evil scheme by Exede. The last time I was DAPed it was for part of a day over a year ago. The average unDAPed speed then was 15 to 18 Mbps. My DAPed speed that time was about .25 Mbps, which was actually usable for the most part. My average speed during prime time (and prime time seems to go to the start time of the LNFZ) now is probably 5 - 8 Mbps. If the DAPed speed has decreased by the same ratio you don't really have working internet.
(Edited)
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Starring Matter

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Over the last few months, there have been some major security flaws found in the general web, Heartbleed being the most well known (remember when yahoo, ebay, facebook wouldn't work for a few weeks?).  When that happened, many sites upgraded their security, and began to force secure connections (https rather than http).  This added layer of security, is certainly a factor as well.  And, as Labs pointed out, when you are DAP'd, your traffic gets a lower priority than someone who is not DAP'd, you have additional connectivity issues.  Add to that being on a congested beam. . .*poof* you think you are being blocked by exede, when it's just a series of circumstances, independent of each other, that are leading you to believe that. 
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Brian Shackelford

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I just want to be clear I believe the same thing. The traffic of DAPd users is so low that it gets dropped or takes so long to move through the lower priority queue that the other end drops the connection. That being said the only thing we have for a documented certainty to go on is the assertion by Exede in ther DAP policy that they may at their discretion choose to limit and or actually block traffic. So again while it may be posted here that they do not, does not mean it isnt actually happening. I know of many cases where the front line support folks are not aware of changes made by the network enginners. I have seen it with all the big ISP players over the years where a call to support required actually speaking with level 3 engineers to get to the bottom of things.

My issue is that up until that point even DAPd the internet was at least usabe at dial up speeds and the services I previously mentioned such as telnet and ssh worked. These are not at all data intensive so I feel like should still work DAPd since they work over a telco dialup.

More detailed information as to how they achieve fair use would be great and at least let everyone know why things do or dont work. Right now we have to just guess as to what traffic is dropped to what priority and what ports might be adfected tje most when DAPd. I would especially be interested in why some evo users dont see any slowdowns currently for non web browsing or email activities when DAPd.

If this is just the beginning of the net neutering O imagine a lot of folks are going to regret undergoing the operation...
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Old Labs (VS1-329-L12FZ)

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I'd guess Evolution experiences would vary by beam - those not heavily loaded are less likely to be impacted by the network management policy and no need to penalize them. I suspect it's more the prioritization and greater probability of getting constantly bumped to the end of the queue when dapped but that's just a guess. As I recall you're on Beam 329 along with me - and appears we're at or near capacity.            
(Edited)
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Brian Shackelford

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That is correct.  So is the person I am friends with that is telling me he has no slowdowns after hitting his CAP even on the data that would supposedly be under restriction under the Evolution plan.  My point isn't that I want someone else to be penalized, only that it is not a very optimal arrangement to allow Evolution users on a congested beam to get full speeds on the same traffic that others on the same beam on classic plans cannot when both have hit their caps.  If a service that is NOT web browsing or web based email doesn't work for a DAP'd classic user, then it should also not work for DAP'd Evolution user.   Again my supposition is that Exede is still working out the kinks in their network prioritization rules and found it easier to allow open access to Evolution users so as to avoid the plethora of complaints that are going to come when these services are slowed down like they are for the rest of us.  Again, in this situation we are both on the same exact beam so we should be having similar experiences when in data restriction for non-web browsing traffic.  At this time this is not the case.  

Again I would love for an Exede representative to comment on any of my postings regarding this particular fact.  I would love more detail as to what the plan / plans are moving forward.  What is that old adage - the silence is deafening?  

There are other users such as Rene that complained about being blocked when DAPd and many here including myself went on the "manage your data better..." and "you knew there were caps...",  however the more I thought about it the more I agree with his point that even when in restriction users should be able to access basic web sites.  

In  looking back I saw where it used to work for me and then late last year it started becoming a problem late last year when DAP'd some things simply didn't work.  I bought the excuse that it was the web servers not responding due to the extremely slow DAPd speeds, however I don't buy it when it comes even more simplistic services.  Furthermore the fact that these sites and services still work on dialup and very slow (less that 50K download) 3G connections coupled with the fact that adding some BW to your account re-enables access to these problem sites seems to support at least the appearance of blocking sites / traffic.  This is supported per the DAP agreement.

Again, I cordially invite an Exede representative to share more in-depth and detailed information regarding the discrepancies in the DAPd users under the Evolution and Classic plans as well as what changes in particular were made late last year.  Let us know what type of traffic is considered problematic and what sort of prioritization DAP'd users get to ensure that at least some basic services are still available.  The way it is going it essentially leads me to believe that DAP'd users face the prospect of no service rather than the "significantly reduced speeds" that used to be available when the data cap is reached.  Even if Exede just came out and said that it is a problem and they are working on it with expected improvements in the next X days, that would be at least enough for many of us to give some time to resolve.  Unfortunately I think they are faced with prospect of simply too many subscribers in some areas and there is no way to fix it at this time.

We will see if one the folks from Exede can elaborate,  
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Exede Lindsey

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Hi Don, our data caps do significantly count towards all internet use including uploads and downloads. I would be more than happy to take a look at your account please email me your account information and a good time to call you to exedelistens@viasat.com. Thank you -Exede Lindsey
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Tim Hallman

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Without a doubt, ftp is blocked by Exede ISP. It's quite clear that Exede's firewall changes. NAT switches from OPEN to STRICT and ports are blocked, making it impossible to connect via ftp (and other methods as well).
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Exede Beau

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Tim, all traffic other than email and web browsing will be restricted. There was some confusion concerning this policy in recent months so we've added some clarifying FAQs to our Data Allowance Policy: http://www.exede.com/documents/master/data-allowance-policy.pdf

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