Problem with some web sites

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  • Updated 2 years ago
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Answer me this please. Why am i able to connect to all websites using a dial up service but cannot view some using my satellite service? Using google chrome with the satellite on some sites I get a "connection reset" error, but the same sites using dial up come in perfectly. Something has to be wrong.
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kenneth mathews

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  • pissed off

Posted 4 years ago

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ExedeEmerald

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Hi Kenneth Mathews, I can definitely take a look as to why you can not access some sites with your satellite service. Please send me an email to exedelistens@viasat.com with your account information and I can get started. =) 
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kenneth mathews

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what kind of info do you need
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kenneth mathews

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can you elaborate on why something like this would happen
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ExedeEmerald

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Hi Kenneth, Right now without looking at your account, I think it could possibly be a data issue. I will be able to fully know once looking at your account. The only information I will need sent to me in email is your phone number. I did email you back requesting that and look forward to speaking with you further. =) 
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kenneth mathews

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only happens on a couple web sites, all others are fine
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Michael Salmons

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Same thing happened to me when I went over the Data cap.  Games and Websites were getting blocked, I even couldn't use Windows Update as well.

My guess is they downgraded there Data Access Policy to something draconian.
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ExedeEmerald

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Hi Michael Salmons, Yes going over the data cap could definitely be the issue but other things could also factor into the issue as well. Things such as these are always something we want to look into on a case to case basis. =) 
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kenneth mathews

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no has nothing to do with data cap since im not even close to using it all each month. This is something to do with either my connection or a network setting on my computer. 
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kenneth mathews

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Emerald, is it you or excede themselves sending me mail saying i need to make a ticket on this by going to the help part of their site? I did that already lol
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kenneth mathews

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Emerald, any word on this situation yet?
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ExedeEmerald

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Hi Kenneth, I just responded to your email asking a few questions. I am working on getting this resolved for you now! =) 
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kenneth mathews

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thanks, I replied to your mail.
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kenneth mathews

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Emerald, any word on this situation yet?
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JrzyJin

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Without further review into your specific circumstances, some possible reasons are:

1) The satellite account is over its' data limit and is currently being filtered (which exede does do).
A) This should be resolved once data is restored.

2) There is a problem with the satellite networks bridging (such as a downed router/bad dns/etc [which is not necessarily caused by the satellite network itself, nor is it necessarily owned/operated by them, nor that networks responsibility to fix]) between you and your destination which does not exist on the dial up network due to different hops.
A) This, depending on the severity of the break (due to simple maintenance of a router, or say a large fibre cable that has been cut by accident) can take days to resolve, but usually no more than one.

3) As ridiculous as it sounds I've had this one happen to me... a cloud in the way.  There was no inclement weather but a single cloud of high density occluding the satellite's line of sight was just sitting there and not moving.  Satellite signals through high density clouds are unstable and intermittent.
A) I'll assume this isn't the problem but I figured I'd mention it all the same.  If it is the issue, you're gonna have to ask Storm from the X-Men for help. :P  (although unless Storm really is causing it, a cloud shouldn't stay stationary for a protracted period of time)

4) Proxy/connection settings are also a potential cause, but like #3, I'm assuming this isn't the cause.

5) Certain blocks/specific IP addresses on the satellite network have been banned at the location you're trying to reach.  This can either be an explicit ban (a specific network or subnet is prevented from accessing that location.  ie: a.b.c.*) or it can be more general such as a geographical location ban (such as a website in China for instance arbitrarily deciding "if this ip address originates from <x> country, just send their data to the drop chain in our firewall").
A) If the cause is a location ban, that would mean that the routing path of the dialup connection does not go through the banned location whereas the satellite's does.  Beyond a proxy, I don't believe you'd have any reasonable way of resolving this issue.  If the cause is a simple address/address block ban, you MIGHT be able to have your DHCP address changed marginally, but usually explicit bans aren't done because most people don't use static IPs, so it's more likely to be a lower level opened ended ban, of which it's not likely you'll be able to switch subnet blocks because that's more or less based on which receiver station you're routing through.

The normal culprits in something like this would be #1 or #2 based on the way it's been described.  #1 is an easy check and I think would have been resolved extremely quickly if this were the case.  Problems such as #2 are their own drama because normal tech support agents aren't "in the loop" enough to have regular dialogue with backend/network operations personnel that resolve issues like this, nor do they have usually have access to "hops" outside of the network they work for.  As such problems like this are typically resolved in due course without any definitive answer, and leave only the "circumstances" to attest to what the problem was.  #4 is an easy way to cause a problem like that, but to my knowledge, exede does not filter internet traffic when an account is NOT over it's data allowance, and enforces no strange proxy/connection settings.  I find it very unlikely you would change these settings between your two internet connections so it doesn't sound like this is the problem.  Sometimes ISPs can utilize startup/connection scripts for logging into their network which set these settings, but my own experience with exede has not been as such, which has been a simple DHCP lease.

I apologize for the rather generic information, but to me it sounds like you're going to end up with non-specific/nondescript answers anyway, and I happened to end up in this thread, so I just wanted to help (even though it's really not).

Edit:
6) After thinking for a moment, I forgot to mention timeouts being a possibility.  If it's only happening on specific access points (such as a few particular websites) it's possible that those sites connection timeout is extremely low.  This is rather unlikely as default HTTP server settings typically have (even to the point of being unrealistic) high timeout thresholds to prevent such occurrences even on high latency systems like satellite.  Still though, if it's just one or maybe two specific websites only, it's possible.  Don't put your stock in this as the problem though, and even if it is, I highly doubt a website is going to change its timeout settings for you so you'd have no recourse anyway.
(Edited)
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Old Labs

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Good explanation, JrzyJin - no need to apologize, its a rather generic error ;) 
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kenneth mathews

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excellent observation JrzyJin, are you an excede tech? if not you should be. Let me comment on all your points, maybe we can pinpoint my problem since excede isnt too concerned about it at this point.

my comments are denoted by ***
___________________________________________________

Without further review into your specific circumstances, some possible reasons are:

1) The satellite account is over its' data limit and is currently being filtered (which exede does do).
A) This should be resolved once data is restored.
***no this isnt my prob since ive never exceded my limit in 2 years, i usually only use about 7 gigs a month.

2) There is a problem with the satellite networks bridging (such as a downed router/bad dns/etc [which is not necessarily caused by the satellite network itself, nor is it necessarily owned/operated by them, nor that networks responsibility to fix]) between you and your destination which does not exist on the dial up network due to different hops.
A) This, depending on the severity of the break (due to simple maintenance of a router, or say a large fibre cable that has been cut by accident) can take days to resolve, but usually no more than one.
***could be but why only on one or 2 web sites do i have a problem with?

3) As ridiculous as it sounds I've had this one happen to me... a cloud in the way.  There was no inclement weather but a single cloud of high density occluding the satellite's line of sight was just sitting there and not moving.  Satellite signals through high density clouds are unstable and intermittent.
A) I'll assume this isn't the problem but I figured I'd mention it all the same.  If it is the issue, you're gonna have to ask Storm from the X-Men for help. :P  (although unless Storm really is causing it, a cloud shouldn't stay stationary for a protracted period of time)
***yes i routinely loose the signal when heavy clouds or rain, basically same as my satellite TV does.

4) Proxy/connection settings are also a potential cause, but like #3, I'm assuming this isn't the cause.
***not so sure about this one, it could be a real possibility. I have been in contact with admins of the web sites that dont work and most claim the problem is on my end, either with my modem or some computer setting. Ive had a couple say i have a "rare weird connection". and thats whats causing this problem. Now i cant tell you what they meant by saying that nor even why they would say it since im not that educated on the inter workings of servers, etc.

5) Certain blocks/specific IP addresses on the satellite network have been banned at the location you're trying to reach.  This can either be an explicit ban (a specific network or subnet is prevented from accessing that location.  ie: a.b.c.*) or it can be more general such as a geographical location ban (such as a website in China for instance arbitrarily deciding "if this ip address originates from <x> country, just send their data to the drop chain in our firewall").
A) If the cause is a location ban, that would mean that the routing path of the dialup connection does not go through the banned location whereas the satellite's does.  Beyond a proxy, I don't believe you'd have any reasonable way of resolving this issue.  If the cause is a simple address/address block ban, you MIGHT be able to have your DHCP address changed marginally, but usually explicit bans aren't done because most people don't use static IPs, so it's more likely to be a lower level opened ended ban, of which it's not likely you'll be able to switch subnet blocks because that's more or less based on which receiver station you're routing through.
***again another possibility because i had one admin tell me the isp i was using (i assume excede) was a lousy connection and known for spamming their servers, but as far as a ban he said there was no ban on my ip number or the isp itself.

The normal culprits in something like this would be #1 or #2 based on the way it's been described.  #1 is an easy check and I think would have been resolved extremely quickly if this were the case.  Problems such as #2 are their own drama because normal tech support agents aren't "in the loop" enough to have regular dialogue with backend/network operations personnel that resolve issues like this, nor do they have usually have access to "hops" outside of the network they work for.  As such problems like this are typically resolved in due course without any definitive answer, and leave only the "circumstances" to attest to what the problem was.  #4 is an easy way to cause a problem like that, but to my knowledge, exede does not filter internet traffic when an account is NOT over it's data allowance, and enforces no strange proxy/connection settings.  I find it very unlikely you would change these settings between your two internet connections so it doesn't sound like this is the problem.  Sometimes ISPs can utilize startup/connection scripts for logging into their network which set these settings, but my own experience with exede has not been as such, which has been a simple DHCP lease.
***I will venture to safely say its at least one of the points you have brought up thats causing my problems. Whatever it is its not something common of excedes regular techs would have already solved the problem, so im not sure i will ever get it solved, so far excede emerald has been most helpful but even they say its going to take a more experience team of techs to look and solve my prob. The keyword to me is when a couple admins say i have a r"are wierd connection", to me that says something, what I dont know but it says something on their end.

I apologize for the rather generic information, but to me it sounds like you're going to end up with non-specific/nondescript answers anyway, and I happened to end up in this thread, so I just wanted to help (even though it's really not).

Edit:
6) After thinking for a moment, I forgot to mention timeouts being a possibility.  If it's only happening on specific access points (such as a few particular websites) it's possible that those sites connection timeout is extremely low.  This is rather unlikely as default HTTP server settings typically have (even to the point of being unrealistic) high timeout thresholds to prevent such occurrences even on high latency systems like satellite.  Still though, if it's just one or maybe two specific websites only, it's possible.  Don't put your stock in this as the problem though, and even if it is, I highly doubt a website is going to change its timeout settings for you so you'd have no recourse anyway.
***The timeout times have been discussed with the admins and techs, all agreed that its not causing the prob. Thanks for your very helpful comments about my prob, if anymore please post them.
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JrzyJin

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Well, the better internet backbones have some rather sophisticated rerouting algorithms that will very quickly attempt to reroute a packet around dead space (such as a downed router or whatnot).  (Packets are the basic building blocks of data being transferred.  Think of them like envelopes with the "data" inside them.)  It helps to think of it visually, like a node in a large branching-tree style display.  If a particular node is removed from the tree, usually everything that it's connected to will suffer the consequences, but rerouting algorithms find the next shortest path that excludes that particular bad node in the equation.  You've probably actually seen this type of technology in other places such as waypointing in video games or driving directions in mapping technology.  Same concept, just a somewhat different arena.  However sometimes a reroute just isn't possible, and your packet will just disappear into the dead air, because the data is being sent somewhere that's just plain foobar for whatever reason.

The next logical step in your troubleshooting is to contact the websites in question (since you have mentioned a dialogue with them) and see if your HTTP requests are actually reaching their servers.  If you give them your IP address this is a very quick and easy thing to check in their HTTP logs, so they shouldn't be antagonistic to the request.  If the request itself is actually reaching their servers, that tells you <x>, but if the request isn't reaching them, it tells you <y>.  You're actually quite lucky to have the multiple internet entry points in this regard as most people only have one and can't troubleshoot as effectively.

Also, while IT people may joke around and say stuff like "IVE GOT A WEIRD CONNECTION" to each other... under serious circumstances, between a corporate [or otherwise] entity and an end-user (not IT oriented), I have never, nor known anyone in that situation who has proclaimed a "weird connection" issue seriously, that actually knew what they were talking about (not to be confused with the numerous exceptions that many websites don't check for/utilize/handle.  ie: "There are many TCP/IP exceptions that we don't check for, and I believe you fall into this category..." or something along those lines isn't what I'm referring to).   I would view this person with a healthy amount of skepticism, as they probably don't know what they're talking about and are simply trying to placate or otherwise avoid answering directly.  While it's true that most people don't have an "OH MY GOD" level understanding of TCP/IP and HTTP requests and the like, these technologies are open standards that anybody can read and learn if they but take the time, though not really suggested reading for people not seriously into IT (it'll be pretty dry, certainly not like reading Strugatsky).  However people whose job it is to deal with these technologies daily (such as webserver administrators or ISP tech support agents) I expect them to at least be familiar with them to a minimal degree, and if they don't know then to simply say as much.  Coping out to "a weird connection error" or something to that effect is, in my opinion, fail.

Do note that I love screwing around, joking around, and causing laughter/panic/happiness/etc.  I think humor absolutely does belong in the workplace.  So don't think I'm trying to say no to techs/reps making jokes.  If me and the tech I'm talking to aren't joking around, the call sucks. >.>;
(Edited)
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kenneth mathews

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yeah i wondered about the admin of that particular server saying about that site but who was i to question them. The ones i was in actual contact with, it seems took an act of god to get a reply from them, while others i never heard from. The one that stated a wierd rare connection seemed to do something on his end and then the site did work for a day or so, although slowly but then as time went by it went back to a non working state. It was this guy that said i has a lousy isp that was responsible for a lot of spam. So i just dont know. Excede hasnt placed much concern about this up to this point so i probably will never know the real problem. Also excede once said well its your router thats causing that, well i dont nor ever have used one, i have a direct wire from modem to computer connection.
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kenneth mathews

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Meant to add, please explain in laymans terms why they all come in perfectly with dial up but not with my high speed internet connection? This is odd to me.
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JrzyJin

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Until an actual cause is determined I don't think it's practical to try.  There's just more possibilities than can easily be accounted for without explaining multiple IT topics, and this isn't the right forum to get into them.  It's like your doctor saying you have <insert some medical condition here>.  You say "okay, what's that mean for me?"  Your doctor explains that particular condition to you.  But what you're asking for is tantamount to you saying "I have these symptoms, tell me what's wrong."  Your doctor certainly could go into everything it might be, but more realistically, your doctor will probably say something like "let's run some tests and get more information first."  Also, some of the topics involved can be difficult and time consuming, like asking a doctor to "explain how neurochemistry works in layman's terms."  (I want to see one's face after getting a question like this.)  Basically, to explain most of this stuff in a reasonable amount of time (or space on paper) requires the usage of field-specific terminology that's assumed the reader knows about already, otherwise it would take too long (or too much writing) to do so.

In a nutshell though, every stop your webpage request makes on its way to <website x> has its' own set of connection hurdles to jump, just to pass along your request to view the desired page.  The big question is: "(a) Is my own computer timing out the request due to too long of a lapse between me starting the page request and data being returned, (b) is there a problem occurring between me and <website x> (the path), or (c) is there some problem with <website x>?"  Your dial-up connection vs. satellite are two completely separate and distinctive networks, with different ways of doing things and different paths leading from your computer to the destination website.  It's like getting driving directions: it may tell you to go a different route today due to traffic, or a wreck blocking 3/4 lanes on the highway, etc.  If your route doesn't take you through that particular highway, it doesn't matter though.  Your dial-up connection and satellite connection may share some "major highways" in their routes, but they don't share all of the "little streets and turns," and even some of those "major highways" are probably different.

To help visualize, here's some eye candy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet_map_1024_-_transparent.png  Not all companies/networks play well together.  Sometimes they ban/blacklist each other.  Sometimes they make network babies.  

Based on what you've said though, my initial "gut feeling" would be toward (a) or (b)... but the destination website "doing something" and it working at all seems odd to me.  Realistically I don't think you can go much beyond where things stand now without more information at your disposal, and going much beyond this would take me outside what I'm comfortable answering because I'm not an Exede technician and don't have any access to internal Exede networks for troubleshooting purposes.  :(
(Edited)
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kenneth mathews

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Even more of a test today, hooked up a laptop to my satellite modem, same problem, went next door to a neighbor on his excede satellite connection, sites came in perfectly on his computers and my laptop. More proof its with my satellite connection exclusively, yet excede semingly doesnt care. ((
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Starring Matter

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So, you've proven the problem is with YOU.  Why should exede care?  If your equipment that they provide is fine, which, it seems they can tell remotely, then, the issue is yours to resolve.  Run ccleaner and malwarebytes if you haven't already.
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kenneth mathews

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re-read my post, Its not on my computer(s), its in their equipment that i lease from them.
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2003844-lwcgrad08

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i am having the same issue did you ever figure out what the issue was?

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