Outgoing Email Problems Following Cap

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I hit my data cap yesterday, and now I can't send outgoing email using my regular ISP (where I am an employee) but I can send email using my gmail account settings. I've restarted the modem and my router and that hasn't helped. 
I am using an Apple MacBook Pro with Thunderbird 31.5.0 in this instance and have turned off all the TLS settings in the outgoing mail profile.

I can telnet to the mail server from my MacBook using the terminal program.
telnet mail.mcn.org 587
Trying 216.150.240.141...
Connected to mail.mcn.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp2.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Sat, 28 Mar 2015 16:52:35 -0700

I have tried multiple times between 3 PM and 5:15 PM Pacific Daylight time on 3/28/15.

I have tried resetting my home router.

Again this was not a problem until I hit the cap.

I have opened a ticket with Exede Case # 00401419

Does Exede only allow outgoing mail to gmail servers after you hit the cap? 

This was not a problem yesterday. I'm posting here in case anyone has an answer. 
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The Billing Clerk

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  • Frustrated!

Posted 5 years ago

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Brian Shackelford

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Others have seen this problem as well - even those on the Evolution plan. The evolution plan specifically states that web browsing and web based email is unlimited at full speed. If you are using SMTP and POP3 or IMAP for outbound / inbound email then you will likely see this problem.

There was another thread about this, but I have not seen the resolution (if any) that was reached concerning that problem.

I know their Data Usage and Network Management policies state they can throttle or block certain traffic once you reach your data cap. Now they will say they do not block any traffic, however their policy reserves the ability to do so once you reach the cap.

I hope they get you sorted out.
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The Billing Clerk

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Thanks for the information Brian. What's interesting to me is that I have no problem using a gmail SMTP server in my Thunderbird client, whereas my local ISP's mail server is unreachable. We'll see what Exede has to say on the case I have filed. 
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Ray

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I have the same problem. After I hitmt cap I can't access my I phone on exede. I have to use my Verizon data even at my home base.
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Exede Beau

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Ray, what sorts of things are you trying to do on your phone? You should still be able to do basic web browsing.
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Ray

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Just trying to sign onto facebook using my exede account. I have to turn it off and use my version ddata
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Exede Beau

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Ray, what about on a computer? It should load slowly, but it should load.
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Ray

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Loads ok on the computer. Just not the iPhone. Streaming anything is out of the question. Seems with all the technology available this should never be a problem.
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Knight Rider

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Ray,

There are many posts here explaining how sat internet works.  It has nothing to do with today's technology that it don't work on your phone.  Most likely how ever Apple has the phones programmed when you're over your access policy and your speeds are slow the phone just thinks the connection has timed out.

More over it's today's technology that is allowing you to have internet access via Satellite.  If it were not for Satellite technology you would still be on dial-up or something.  So be thankful that this technology does exist and gets you internet.

Sadly we are all in the same boat here being limited to the access policy but Exede is working to provide better service hence the Liberty plans.  This way even though you go over your data for the month you are still promised up to 5mbps download compared to like 512kbps with the normal plans when you go over your data.

Looking to next year and the lunch of Viasat-2 they might change the plans again and offer different options depending on how much of Central America and some of the other newly covered areas buy in to the Exede plans.

In the mean time work with Beau or one oh the others and make sure there's not something on the back end that can be tweaked to get you working on your phone even after you have gone over your data allowance for the month.


NR

Beam 335
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Exede Beau

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The Billing Clerk, that doesn't sound quite right, I'd like to do some troubleshooting with you. Please send us an email at exedelistens@viasat.com with your account and contact information. Please reference this post in your email.
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The Billing Clerk

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Beau, 
I have a case open with Exede . It's ## 00401419. 
In the meantime I got some more technical information from my ISP. From the ISP side of the logs, they see me start a mail session 
2015-03-29 06:33:31 1YcDLF-0006zk-3h <= mitch@mcn.org H=(Mitchs-MacBook-Pro.local) [172.243.158.240] P=esmtpa A=dovecot_plain: S=1926 id=5517FF23.6010908@mcn.org

And then several minutes later, that session times out
2015-03-29 06:37:44 SMTP command timeout on connection from (mcn.org) [172.243.158.240]

But when I run a telnet command line session to the mail server, I get an instantaneous "Connection closed by Foreign Host" response to the HELO command. The session is being stopped by something else. We think this may be something in the Exede system relative to being capped. 

telnet mail.mcn.org 587Trying 216.150.240.141...
Connected to mail.mcn.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp2.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Sun, 29 Mar 2015 09:20:14 -0700
helo mcn.org
Connection closed by foreign host.

I spoke with an nice Exede rep today who told me was the problem was that the website I was using timed out. This is incorrect. I am using a Thunderbird client, and in fact I can use my ISP's webmail system with no problem. 

She gave us some extra bandwidth so the problem is now gone and I can't trouble shoot it with you. However, I would like to see if Exede can help us find the reason for the "Connection closed by foreign host" instant responses.


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Exede Beau

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Mitch, glad I was able to catch you on the phone. And for the benefit of others should anyone else run into similar issues when DAP'd, know that this is being investigated.

If any of you are having trouble accessing basic sites or services when DAP'd and they previously worked, please send us an email at exedelistens@viasat.com with your account and contact information.
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Brian Shackelford

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Billing -

My guess is the response times from your client to their server is not fast enough when under data restriction so the server thinks the remote dropped the connection -OR- even more likely something in the accelnet server is causing the connection to close even though the traffic is not supposed to be blocked.

About October / November of 2014 I started seeing the exact same problems.  Whether it was a mobile device or a PC, once I hit my cap many functions that used to work while DAP'd stopped working altogether - including SSH, Telnet, SMTP, POP3, etc.  Light text based web pages would not even load many times.  This is in spite of the DAP'd speeds supposedly being around 256 Kbps.  I suspect that either Exede has further throttled these DAP speeds OR changed prioritization on these to be so tremendously low that that it simply is not usable.

I have upgraded my plan to give me the extra I needed to avoid hitting my cap every month but am very disappointed that something changed around that time and to this day no one has given any detail as to what it was.  I can say the Data Policies were updated about that time as well, but again it went from extremely slow but still usable to completely non-usable after hitting the cap around that time.

The simply fact that it works after adding some data to your account means that Exede has now placed Classic / Evo users who are DAP'd in place where even though they do not "block" services, they are essentially "blocking" services.  No one from Exede has provided any detail or denial of this state of affairs or responded to any past post regarding this condition when DAP'd as to why these very low BW connections (SSH, Telnet, SMTP, POP3) connections do not work when under data restriction.  If sending an email with no attachment the BW usage is so low that a dial-up modem would work, so why will it not work when DAP'd?  

I look forward to hearing the answer you receive from Exede.  Fortunately for now, I have my access under control, but others I believe have valid complaints of the same behavior when under data restriction.  I have been a customer for nearly 3 years and only started seeing this problem in late 2014 so I know that something changed but as of yet, there is no explanation of what it was.  Exede would be well served and probably find a tolerant audience if they could explain these changes and just what a DAP'd Classic or Evo customer should expect as far as what they can and cannot do with the changes that have been put in place.
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Exede Beau

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Mitch, spoke with engineering today and they were able to locate the problem. The fix should go through today. Thanks for all of your patience with this, the logs and information you provided is how they found the resolution.

Please let me know if you continue to have any problems.
(Edited)
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Ebal Nolom

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Wonder how widespread the issue is?  I see quite a few folks complaining about the same/similar problems when DAP'd.  No/poor email service.  Was the problem limited to a particular gateway or Accelenet server?
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Exede Beau

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Ebal, I am not sure if it was effecting multiple gateways or not, it seemed to be a broader issue with the DAP configuration. Should be all up to speed now, though.
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The Billing Clerk

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Exede Beau
Thanks for the follow up. Since I'm back with a new allocation of bandwidth, I haven't had the problem. However, because I am interested in this problem, I'm going to force myself to be DAP'd at the end of April and see if the problem re-occurs. I'll update this conversation with my results. 
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The Billing Clerk

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My account was DAP'd last night. Again, I am unable to send email to my ISP's mail server, mail.mcn.org because Exede is blocking access to it following my account being placed in

telnet mail.mcn.org 587
Trying 216.150.240.141...
Connected to mail.mcn.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp2.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Thu, 23 Apr 2015 07:09:36 -0700
helo mcn.org
Connection closed by foreign host.

I tried mail servers for two other large ISP's Sonic.net and Yahoo. Both of these are blocked.
smtp.sonic.net 587
Trying 64.142.7.162...
Connected to mail.sonic.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 mail.sonic.net ESMTP [c]
helo mcn.org
Connection closed by foreign host.

telnet smtp.mail.yahoo.com 587
Trying 98.138.105.21...
Connected to smtp.mail.global.gm0.yahoodns.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp.mail.yahoo.com ESMTP ready
helo mcn.org
Connection closed by foreign host

I am able to connect vial the gmail servers. 

I have started Case # 00418848 with Exede and would encourage anyone with the problem to refer to this case number. 

I am available for testing for most of the day today if anyone from Exede wants to work with me. 
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Exede Lindsey

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The Billing Clerk, I want to make sure you’re aware that your case has been recognized and has been escalated to our engineers for further review. You should be receiving a direct email shortly. Thank you for your patience. -Exede Lindsey 
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The Billing Clerk

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I was given extra bandwidth by Exede as a work around to this situation. That's gone and I am DAP'd again, and again, I lose access to my outgoing mail server again. Problem is not resolved. What I believe are inconsistencies the way DAP is applied are making this confusing. My new case number is 00422386 which is my third case on this issue. I'm hoping Exede can do better than tell me to use IMAP, an incoming email protocol to work around this situation. 

1. My two previous cases on this issue are 00401419 and 00418848.

2. With the first case in March of this year, I was assured that Exede resolved the issue. The issue reappeared immediately in April when I was DAP'd.

3. With the second case on April 23rd, I was told to use IMAP as the solution which is illogical as IMAP is an incoming mail protocol. I asked for further clarification from Exede and received no response.

4. Here is the technical result of a telnet session to my ISP's mail server showing the immediate closing of the connection by Exede.
telnet mail.mcn.org 587
Trying 216.150.240.141...
Connected to mail.mcn.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:49:06 -0700
helo mcn.org
Connection closed by foreign host.

5. Exede does not block access to the gmail servers 
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Exede Beau

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Mitch, I grabbed your email from last night. I've been communicating with our engineers who are working on this issue. There was a recent change to SMTP protocols by some providers, and we're working on implementing compatibility. I know there was some testing going on yesterday. I know it's frustrating, but ask for you to be patient as we work our way through this. I will keep case 00422386 open and update you when I have more additional information.
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The Billing Clerk

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Further proof that Exede is blocking port 587 under DAP 

telnet smtp.mail.yahoo.com 587
Trying 98.138.105.21...
Connected to smtp.mail.global.gm0.yahoodns.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp.mail.yahoo.com ESMTP ready
helo mcn.org
Connection closed by foreign host.


 telnet smtp.mail.yahoo.com 25
Trying 63.250.193.228...
Connected to smtp.mail.global.gm0.yahoodns.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp.mail.yahoo.com ESMTP ready
helo mcn.org
250 smtp.mail.yahoo.com
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The Billing Clerk

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Here we are again.... capped today and outgoing email is blocked as of 7 AM PDT. So far Exede is blaming this on changes at ISP mail servers which is confusing because Exede seems to be able to make it work if you aren't capped. 

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp1.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Fri, 22 May 2015 06:38:55 -0700

helo mcn.org

250 smtp1.mcn.org Hello mcn.org [172.243.158.240]

=======AT 7 AM it fails========

 telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Fri, 22 May 2015 07:01:35 -0700

helo mcn.org

Connection closed by foreign host

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Exede Lindsey

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Hello The Billing Clerk, I apologize your having issues with your data concerning your email access, this should not be the case. I would be more than happy to review your account so we can resolve this issue as soon as possible. Please send an email to exedelistens@viasat.com Thank you 
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The Billing Clerk

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Hi,
There is an on going Exede ticket on this
00422386
Per Exede Beau I was told to continue communicating via that ticket with Exede. I updated that ticket this morning. Do I need to send another email to Exede?
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Exede Lindsey

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Hi The Billing Clerk, Beau is no longer with this company, I apologize you have not been updated concerning this email issue, if it has been resolved or not. I will follow up with our escalations team and engineers to find out the familiarity with this issue. I appreciate your patience through all this.  I will contact you directly If I need more information.  Thank you 
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The Billing Clerk

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No response from Exede on this issue after 5 hours. Called in to tech support, escalated to "techincal specialists". They don't look at my trouble ticket, try and pitch me on remote access repair to my computer, but I have a Mac. No attempt to address the problem. Asked to be escalated to a supervisor. They tried to take me out of data restriction but told them I want to solve the problem, not have it papered over another month. Now waiting to be escalated to the supervisor. 
(Edited)
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The Billing Clerk

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Finally spoke with technical escalations supervisor and at the end of it all, because the original employee took me out of data restriction (which I did not ask them to do), the problem went away and apparently there is no way to undo that and Exede is no longer willing to pursue the problem unless it's happening. So we're back to square one with this problem. An hour wasted on the phone with no results. Have to wait until I'm DAP'd until I get go through this again. Groan.....
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Exede Lindsey

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The billing Clerk, I left you a voicemail earlier to follow up on your email issue concerning your Exede service, as we need some more information to re-escalate  this issue. Please contact me as soon as possible thank you. 
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The Billing Clerk

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I am again DAP'd and the problem is back Exede Lindsey is working with the engineers to try and resolve it. The problem starts at 7 AM PDT like clockwork. 
As you can see the problem does not happen with Gmail. I have told Lindsey that I am willing to stay under data restriction to try and fix this. 

========My mail server=============
telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Wed, 27 May 2015 08:19:59 -0700

helo mcn.org

Connection closed by foreign host.


======Gmail server=============

telnet smtp.googlemail.com 587

Trying 74.125.20.16...

Connected to googlemail-smtp.l.google.com.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 mx.google.com ESMTP jw7sm16389948pbb.25 - gsmtp

helo mcn.org

250 mx.google.com at your service


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The Billing Clerk

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Like clockwork... 7 AM PDT 

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Thu, 28 May 2015 07:01:27 -0700

helo mcn.org

Connection closed by foreign host.

==========  ABOUT 15 MINUTES EARLIER ========

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp1.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Thu, 28 May 2015 06:42:43 -0700

helo mcn.org

250 smtp1.mcn.org Hello mcn.org [172.243.158.240]

========

Hoping someone at Exede is working on this. 


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Exede Lindsey

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Hi the Billing Clerk, thank you so much for your patience. Our engineering teams are currently reviewing this issue in hunt for a resolution in relation to your email. More than likely this issue should be resolved as of this week, I will be sure to contact you directly as soon as I get confirmation. 
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The Billing Clerk

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The problem is still occurring on Friday morning May 29, 2015. 
At 6:50 AM  PDT the data restriction occurred and the late night free zone ended. At that time, access to my outgoing mail server is no longer available. See my telnet sessions below. 

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp1.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Fri, 29 May 2015 06:38:26 -0700

helo mcn.org

250 smtp1.mcn.org Hello mcn.org [172.243.158.240]


telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp1.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Fri, 29 May 2015 06:49:54 -0700

helo mcn.org

Connection closed by foreign host.

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Exede Lindsey

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Thank you for the update The Billing Clerk. I have escalated this information as well. Thank you again for your patience as we work to resolve this crazy email issue. 
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The Billing Clerk

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Unfortunately, this problem was never resolved. I was unable to send email all weekend until I got my new allotment of data. I hope that Exede will continue to work towards a solution. If not, I will be back in this forum with updated information. 
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Exede Lindsey

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Hello The Billing Clerk, our engineers are still looking into getting this issue resolved for you concerning your email and dap. Thanks again for your patience as we continue to research this issue. Please feel free to email for any further assistance. -Exede Lindsey 
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pyrotuc

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i have the exact same thing happen to me with SSH.  when im dapped, all ssh connections fail, as well as google talk, imessage, etc etc and get lots of ssl handshake errors in the logs.
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Exede Lindsey

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Hello Pyrotuc, site such as the few you’ve listed: google talk or imessage would not be accessible if you have reached your data limit and speeds were throttled. Feel free to send an email to exedelistens@viasat.com. Let me know if I can be of assistance in any way. Thank you
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Brian Shackelford

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Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is (as shown by the last reply from Lindsey) that Exede does indeed block services when over your data cap.  For months and months there had been previous representatives on here saying that they do NOT block anything.  Now someone form Exede has finally admitted they do.

Keep in mind, it isn't really "blocking" these sites as it is slowing things down so very much that even the most forgiving of networking services will not function at all.  They do this so that they can say they do not block anything, but the effect is the same.  They don't technically stop the traffic outright, but basically kink the hose so much that no water comes out the other end.  As is shown by the 2 months being spent trying to "resolve" the Billing Clerk's problem, there is also not a high priority to fixing the issues when they do occur and are supposed to work.

Exede's data use and network policies changed late last year (when those of us who have been on Exede for a while) saw problems once our caps were hit.  Previously we could still browse, but it was very slow.  Once those new policies were put in place late last year (October I believe), things that used to work while DAP'd no longer did.  Then these were revised again earlier this year.

I can certainly say that I am sorely disappointed that the service I used for almost two years and was more than happy with suddenly changed last year and became to me a different service.  I don't know how you tell a client that everything that had been working just fine suddenly won't work anymore because we changed something.  Then when asked about it you are told, the policies just hadn't been enforced until now, but this is the service you actually signed up for almost 2 years ago.

So basically I used a service almost 2 years and then they started actually giving me the service I signed up for late last year, which was a degraded and lower service that what I had been experiencing previously.  I just want to show how ridiculous that sounds and came across to all of use here.  Unfortunately none of us that use Exede have any other options so we stick with the service.  In my case I upgraded my plan and became nearly a dictator with network access at the house. 

Good luck getting anywhere with the fix.  From my experience you can choose to live with it or upgrade your plan.
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Exede Lindsey

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Hello Everyone, we are constantly working on improving our services to make a better customer experience for everyone which is the reason allot of users come to this form to utilize as a platform so we can diagnose and resolve each issue on a case by case scenario. At the same time we are making sure the company is aware of any issues that may be trending or just ways to make Exede even better. If we can be of any service or if your experiencing direct issues related to your service package please feel free to send an email to exedelistens@viasat.com  Thank you. 
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The Billing Clerk

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We have two issues tonight. One, our bandwidth disappeared within 30 minutes while we weren't doing anything on our computers. That will be the subject of another "conversation". However, again, now that we are DAP'd, we can't send e-mail out through our outgoing mail server. We're on month four with this problem. Exede staff, please don't take us out of DAP until your engineers have a chance to look at, and resolve, this problem. 

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Sat, 13 Jun 2015 20:58:43 -0700

helo mcn.org

Connection closed by foreign host.

Mitchs-MacBook-Pro:~ mitchsprague$ 


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Exede Lindsey

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Hi The Billing Clerk, thank you for the update. I will be sure to escalate this info to our engineers as they are still reviewing your email issues.  Thank you so much again for your patience. 
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The Billing Clerk

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The problem still exists at 2:40 PM 6/15/15.
This is month four with this issue. 

====FAILED CONNECTION TO MY ISP's OUTGOING MAIL SERVER==

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Mon, 15 Jun 2015 14:39:37 -0700

helo mcn.org

Connection closed by foreign host.


==SUCCESSFUL CONNECTION TO GMAIL OUTGOING MAIL SERVER===

telnet smtp.googlemail.com 587

Trying 74.125.28.16...

Connected to googlemail-smtp.l.google.com.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 mx.google.com ESMTP i5sm8763025pat.42 - gsmtp

helo mcn.org

250 mx.google.com at your service

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The Billing Clerk

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Problem still present and is back in the pattern of ending around 6:50 AM to 6:55 AM PDT

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Wed, 17 Jun 2015 06:52:12 -0700

helo mcn.org

250 smtp3.mcn.org Hello mcn.org [172.243.158.240]

=========================

telnet mail.mcn.org 587

Trying 216.150.240.141...

Connected to mail.mcn.org.

Escape character is '^]'.

220 smtp3.mcn.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Wed, 17 Jun 2015 06:55:17 -0700

helo mcn.org

Connection closed by foreign host.

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Brian Shackelford

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That is a very, very interesting time for it to stop working.  The LNFZ ends at 5:00 AM And the EBFZ ends at 8:00 AM.  Really strange that your seeing this at around 7:00 AM.  I wonder if they have your modem registered in the correct time zone.

That probably won't affect the DAP situation, however it may be a side issue with they way your data is accounted for.

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