net neutrality and the FCC and of course Exede.

  • 2
  • Problem
  • Updated 6 months ago
  • Not a Problem
  • (Edited)
I WANT TO EMPHASIZE I AM HERE TO PROMOTE DISCUSSION BETWEEN MYSELF AND EXEDE EMPLOYEES BECAUSE I WISH TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS REASONABLE COMPARED TO THE GUIDELINES THE FCC HAS SET.

So normally Exede reps post this

 "Any person engaged in the provision of broadband Internet access service, insofar as
such person is so engaged, shall not unreasonably interfere with or unreasonably
disadvantage (i) end users’ ability to select, access, and use broadband Internet access
service or the lawful Internet content, applications, services, or devices of their choice, or
(ii) edge providers’ ability to make lawful content, applications, services, or devices
available to end users. Reasonable network management shall not be considered a violation of this rule"


in response to most posts about this topic but I'm really here to ask because I believe the FCC has said on a few occasions where they lay the lines at "reasonable" and I feel Exede have not followed or are even fully aware of these so I guess I'll put them here for you. 

1. Subject to reasonable network management, a provider of broadband Internet access service may not prevent any of its users from sending or receiving the lawful content of the user’s choice over the Internet.

2. Subject to reasonable network management, a provider of broadband Internet access service may not prevent any of its users from running the lawful applications or using the lawful services of the user’s choice.

3. Subject to reasonable network management, a provider of broadband Internet access service may not prevent any of its users from connecting to and using on its network the user’s choice of lawful devices that do not harm the network.

4. Subject to reasonable network management, a provider of broadband Internet access service may not deprive any of its users of the user’s entitlement to competition among network providers, application providers, service providers, and content providers.

5. Subject to reasonable network management, a provider of broadband Internet access service must treat lawful content, applications, and services in a nondiscriminatory manner.

6. Subject to reasonable network management, a provider of broadband Internet access service must disclose such information concerning network management and other practices as is reasonably required for users and content, application, and service providers to enjoy the protections specified in this part.


Reasonable network management consists of: (a) reasonable practices employed by a provider of broadband Internet access to (i) reduce or mitigate the effects of congestion on its network or to address quality-of-service concerns; (ii) address traffic that is unwanted by users or harmful; (iii) prevent the transfer of unlawful content; or (iv) prevent the unlawful transfer of content; and (b) other reasonable network management practices.

Now the keyword here is "Reasonable" in order to be “reasonable”, a network management practice must be (a) “reasonable” and directed toward certain specific ends, or (b) “reasonable”.

Now I do not believe Exede falls under this guideline set for reasonable.

Source A: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2009/10/26/net-neutrality-when-network-management-reasonable/ 

Source B: http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/fcc-publishes-net-neutrality-rules-takes-hard-line-network-ma... (This article mainly pertains to wireless carriers like AT&T and Verizon but the information is also relevant)

Source C: https://community.exede.com/exede/topics/net-neutrality-violation-by-excede?topic-reply-list%5Bsetti...
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Nathan

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Posted 9 months ago

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Charles Crocker

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You must be a lawyer to really want to get into this discussion on such a topic as this, dissecting a word for the sake of making a point that in the end will make no difference in the service we receive from the provider.... waste of time and brain cells.  
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ThankfulForExede

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Each step looks fine through (a+b)(a-b)=b(a-b), then it goes off the rails. To reach the next step (a+b)=b, both sides would need to be divided by (a-b). Since we have already established that a=b, then (a-b) equals 0. Division by 0 is undefined, so that reduction is invalid.
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xode0000, Champion

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The point of the above image is to show a fallacious "argument" that, on the surface and without any real thought or attention to detail, looks "logical and reasonable."  Except when (a - b) is zero, division by (a - b) is perfectly acceptable.  The reason for the fallacious argument is to draw an analogy between that absurdity and the nonsense the OP originally posted.

There's an even more subtle math fallacy.  If x(u, v) = (x, y, z) is a vector function from the (u, v) plane into 3-dimensional (x, y, z) space, then trying to invert that function to u(x, y, z) = (u, v) leads to u(x, y, z) "functions" that "float all over the place" and that can't be resolved into specific algebraic formulas, since x(u, v) = (x, y, z) is not invertible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_function_theorem

BTW, this same analogy applies to the fraudulent courts as well.  Those fraudulent courts will always profess that you have rights they are upholding but always "somehow" trample on those same rights of yours.  If you read those fraudulent court opinions and rulings, you will find attorney babble by those judges, who are attorneys, that reads much like what the OP originally posted.

Unfortunately, unlike what the OP originally posted, which is quite harmless, the effects of the fraudulent courts are very harmful, one example being that those fraudulent courts sanctioned the theft of VisSat's intellectual property by SSL Loral and HughesNet.
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Brian, Champion

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No. No. The equation works fine if you add in the hocus-pocus determinant.
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Will Mahan

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"...are likely the true trolls paid by or working for the company..."

"...I'm happy to have finally found a moral company o unlimitedville.com..."

I feel like there's some irony in there somewhere. I can almost put my finger on it.
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Will Mahan

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How many times can we copy and paste the exact same reply in a single thread? Aaaaand GO!

1
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Jim16

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"I WANT TO EMPHASIZE I AM HERE TO PROMOTE DISCUSSION BETWEEN MYSELF AND EXEDE EMPLOYEES"

First off, this is a community forum for customers to discuss issues with other customers.

Completely agree Charles.  I guess it's a unique way to throw a tantrum, I'll give him that.  It all boils down to ....    "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is"

And if he is a lawyer, he doesn't have very many brain cells to be wasting!
(Edited)
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I'm paying $60.99 a month.  I have the option between AT&T DSL and Viasat.  How is that a monopoly?  Viasat is actually cheaper for me than AT&T.
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Will Mahan

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2
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Old Labs

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Well since the dam has now broken, I think it's unreasonable to expect a public discourse from ViaSat employees (particularly social media moderators) regarding regulatory matters.

However, one of the Net Neutrality transparency requirements was publishing the ISP's network management policy (originally ISPs having less than 100,000 subscribers were exempt but that has now been increased to 250,000 - at last check ViaSat still has 589,000 subscribers). ViaSat's was actually published in March 2015 shortly before the official adoption of Net Neutrality order and can be found at:

https://www.exede.com/documents/master/network-management-policy.pdf

Sounds reasonable enough to me and has been updated as plans change or are added.

Regardless, I suspect all Viasat employees will defer legal matters to their legal team or simple interpretion of the documents that can be found at:

https://www.exede.com/legal/

The original poster's question is fallacious in the sense it assumes a presumption of guilt without identifying what he considers unreasonable - much the same as asking: "when did you stop beating your wife?"
(Edited)
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Jim16

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Definitely no brain cells wasted with that.

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Will Mahan

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3
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xode0000, Champion

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I have never seen Exede ever block any of my content, and I have accessed many a thing in my time with Exede.
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J&J

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There was a time I might have jumped on this wagon just to inflict more pain on ViaSat.  An awakening happens when a person realizes they have the ability to hurt or destroy, a time of consideration of just what damage they really want to inflict and for what purpose, or is it just a matter of justification.

I played prosecutor, judge, and jury at one time and when my own verdict was read, found it immoral to condemn ViaSat because they could not sustain performance levels I expected. ViaSat was investigated not just as a company but also the people that made the company what it is today.  I found sincere people with goals that are based on providing great service at an affordable price, a service to benefit the customer in their daily lives insofar as that could be made possible.  ViaSat is the victim of their own success.  People liked what Exede could supply; Internet where they lived, no matter where. This led to what is commonly called ‘over-booking’ to the extent people saw their Internet system performance deteriorate to complainable levels and it happened because Exede didn’t want to say No to people that had nothing.  A slowdown at times was tolerated to accommodate those needing Internet in their homes  and the attitude was similar to “if we all accept a little less at times, more people overall could enjoy the Internet at home.”  This may not be the official ‘legal’ basis for over-booking, but it is apparent.  Over-booking has not been done out of greed.

ViaSat is not operated in the fashion of a “Typical New York Corporation” that is heartless about how they view and treat their customers.  Verizon, Comcast, and A.T. & T. are typical New York Corporations.

Presently Exede is not taking on new customers to increase their dominance in the marketplace, they are replacing customers that lost patience and did not have faith that ViaSat was doing the best they can and is actively investing in upgrading their system to restore and maintain full speed to each and every customer.  Our Internet works, just not always as we would desire at this time, but it works. ViaSat is juggling available bandwidth with their data plans trying to make as many people happy with the service as they can until VS-2 is operational.  Investors have tunnel vision.  They want to see numbers of subscribers and if that number goes down, they bail out.  Exede is offering customers data plans unheard of before for this type of service. They are stretching resources to the limit to fulfill customer expectations and keep everyone happy.  A “typical New York Corporation” wouldn’t care less about how happy their customers are at anytime.  I have faith in ViaSat. I can see beyond today’s problems and recognize the sincere efforts to make this an admirable system where all customers feel they get what they pay for and maybe more.  “Reasonable Network Management” on the part of ViaSat is plainly obvious. One just needs to look at the plans available and it becomes clear the common customer's satisfaction is ViaSat’s #1 priority.  ViaSat is giving customers all they can with the resources they have to do it with, they're giving all they have.  People need to give them a break until VS-2 is online, because then everybody should be happy with their service. 

 


(Edited)
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Rae Yearnd

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the delay on the second bird was about two years because of theft by ViaSat's competitors and their Satellite builder.  The company has a business model and I doubt that they are any more or less successful than any other nationwide service company is delivering what they try to provide to their customers. Yet the infrastructure delay has caused serious problems currently,  and no company can hit the pause button and wait until they can meet the needs of current customers.
Cleverly worded service agreements and fine print at the bottom of contracts are only important to the Lawyers and no help at all to either frustrated customers,  or customer service reps. 
I do believe that for every upset customer on this and other forums there are many others who are happy with their service,, either because of the Beam that they are in or because of their expectations and understanding of the nature of satellite delivered internet service.
For all who are pissed beyond the point of making any sense,  $ 15.00  a month to buy out your contract  and get rid of that  that terrible stain that ViaSat has put on your soul should seem to be a bargain,, then you are free to get your U.S. Robotics Modem out of the closet and go back to dial up.
 
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Will Mahan

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6!
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Hfcomms

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Some people like to argue just for the sake of arguing and many of them do gravitate towards being lawyers.  To expect a company employee [who is here to help people with problems] to be a lawyer or to speak for corporate is not reasonable.  Best way to deal with trolls is not to feed them.
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Jim16

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Will Mahan

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4
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Fat people shouldn't have to change their lifestyles either.  Just go have heart surgery and its the doctor's fault if someone dies.
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Old Labs

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And that's just this conversation alone...
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I played bingo yesterday at a fundraiser.  The grand prize was a 55 inch color tv.  Despite spending $20 on bingo cards, I didn't win a dang thing.  Fortunately the money went to a good cause.
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Bev, Champion

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I went to the Aquarium shop yesterday and, spent way too much money on my credit card but, I like the fish and corals I bought so, like my Exede service which I also like, money well spent for personal enjoyment. I'm not complaining.

Of course I don't expect the fish to cook dinner for me, the corals to paint my walls or, Exede service to be fiber service.
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Bev, Champion

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I have a fix for that, takes 3-4 months but, guaranteed algae gone except a little coraline on the rocks if you have stony corals that need mineral supplements added regularly. A bit of a process so, call Marine World in Hot Springs, ask for Len, ask him about the ammonium chloride and vodka treatment - sounds crazy, works great.

Fixed my massive hair algae outbreak in 3 months - all gone, no scrubbing or picking and, all corals survived and, are now thriving - just have to keep dosing forever once you start or the garbage comes back but it's a few pennies per day so, not a big expense for a clean, clear, zero ammonia, zero nitrite, below 5 ppm nitrate tank that's basically worry free. :)

And yes, we Arkies here just got WAY off topic LOL Sorry Exede crew.
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xode0000, Champion

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I'm not sorry to see this.  It's much more pleasant and informative than the original topic of this thread.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Y'all have lost your mind. When I had an aquarium I put algae eaters in the tank. They ate up all that green stuff and I didn't have to do a thang.
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Bev, Champion

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Sure, works great in a freshwater tank. Saltwater algae eaters tend to be either very small (crabs and snails,) very susceptible to marine ich  (Tangs) or, come with a poisonous sting (FoxFace) Or thy aren't reef safe and will also eat corals, which you don't want if you've spent money on corals you like.

None of them gobble up algae like a pleco will for fresh water.

I've got crabs, a Tang, a Foxface and, snails in there, not enough. Of course that means I also have to run a UV sterilizer to prevent ich because, with invertebrates in there, I can't use any copper based medications, and, ich medication is copper based.

Yes, saltwater is a bit more hassle than fresh water and, a lot more expense but, so beautiful and, enjoyable.
(Edited)
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Will Mahan

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Five! Five copy/pastes of this totally-not-a-shill reply! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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You should find a bingo place that has aquarium stuff for the prizes.
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Bev, Champion

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Good Idea for my Reef club, instead of a drawing for coral frags, bingo for them. :) Thanks Stephen.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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No worries.  I wish I had some advice for you on how to win the bingo game though.  I've tried everything and I've never ever won a game.  I even put quarters on the table for good luck and nothing special ever happens.
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Brian, Champion

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Nathan

I think you understand the words you wrote.

I don't think you understand the sentences you wrote.

Best wishes!
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Brandon Fisher

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This has got nothing to do with this post but what exactly is a champion? I notice this title a lot and that you all seem to talk to each other and was kinda curious as to what a champion is. at first i thought it was a post thing then i noticed its got nothing to do with the number of posts.
(Edited)
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Brad, Viasat Employee

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Both still go to the same inbox. 
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Will Mahan

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7! Whew. That's a lot of not-shilling!
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Will Mahan

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7! Whew. That's a lot of not-shilling!
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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How exactly is Viasat a monopoly if you have the option between Viasat, Hughesnet, and Unlimitedville?
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Old Labs

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Don Shula and Mercury Morris would like to take this opportunity to remind you that Perfectville still has a population of one. 
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Will Mahan

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I'm posting this because of an experience I had just today. It motivated me to speak up.

When I buy services, I hold the providers of those services to a high standard. I work hard for my money, and there's not much in the world more frustrating than paying your hard-earned money to a company that consistently flakes on the services they promised.

Exede (ViaSat now?) is not one of those flaky companies. I've been with them for about 3 years now, and have had rare cause to complain. In all that time I had one faulty equipment issue. They had the local dealer at my front door the next morning to fix it. There was a significant outage today (about 14 hours) which, don't get me wrong, was frustrating, but when I reached out for information on these very forums, I got an official response within a half hour. I've occasionally called customer service and had a satisfying experience each time.

My point being, and of course I can only speak for myself, is that Exede has done right by me. They've taken my hard-earned dollars and converted them into a service that I have exactly zero access to otherwise, and they deliver it as-advertised more than 99% of the time. It's almost always on, and it's almost always blazing fast.

My only grumble is the high latency. It does limit what I can do with my internet somewhat, but I also know that latency is just the nature of the beast when it comes to satellite. I happily accept it because otherwise I'd be stuck with 1.5mbps from Centurylink or whatever they call themselves these days. Living in the country is great, ain't it?

I rambled... anyway, I can't speak for everyone, but my experience from Exede, both customer support and service reliability has been exceptional. I don't know what you're on about, but it kinda sorta looks like you're just trying to pick a fight. Go have a beer and watch a sunset. You'll feel better.
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Brad, Viasat Employee

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Hi Will,

Thank you for the kind words! Unfortunately latency is one of those weaknesses we can't fix because of how high up our satellite is. Most (but not all) of the customers that notice it are gamers and we've had a few posts on our blog as well as a few users on here keep a tally of how different games work on Viasat (formerly Exede). Safe rule of thumb is that First Person Shooters are a gamble but other games seem to be more likely to perform properly. That's definitely an Achilles heel but innovation has really been chugging along. Just in the last year 1/2 we saw plans go from hard set limits (30GB was as good as it got) to Liberty plans, to Freedom plans to the new Unlimited plans. We may even have a few next year so I think internet is certainly getting better for country living ...I'm a city dweller but I did grow up in the country and the quietness is unmatched and fully agree on the beer and sunset whether you have big open sky or mountains that shorten the sunset. 

I know not everyone shares that feeling (that's why I'm working right now) but we do appreciate seeing things like this time to time.
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Will Mahan

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You're welcome, Brad. I'm a big 'give credit where credit is due' kind of guy, and when a company does right by me, I say so. And Exede has always done right by me.

When I first signed up for service in... shoot, I've forgotten when, but I was one of the first customers in my area, and Exede permanently increased my data from 5gb to 10gb at no additional cost as a "thank you" for being an early adopter.

I've since upgraded to FREEDOM 150 GB - BOOST 25 + WIFI because for almost the same money I now have what is effectively unlimited data, but that's beside the point. The real point is I have always been treated well, sometimes above and beyond what I paid for, and you guys deserve the kudos for that.

And yeah, I know big latency is inherent with satellite internet. I learned that way back when I first signed up for Wild Blue a decade or so ago. I did the research and knew I'd just have to learn to live with it, and I have. It's like you said; twitch-type games are a no-go. You just can't keep up. Those were the limitations I spoke of earlier. but as I said, I'm happy to live with it because how else can I get 25mbps out here in the sticks?

Thanks to all of you for all you do!
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Will Mahan

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8! 8 copy/paste shills! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Since this is my original reply, I'll take the opportunity to laugh out loud while dynamically mocking you. Please hold....

Okay, I'm back. Exhilarating!

You're a clown. You call others shills while simultaneously shilling for unlimitedville.com (stupid freaking name, by the way) as hard as you can.

I can see where you're coming from, though. It's absolutely incomprehensible that a person can not be employed by a company, spend quality time at home, and have a family all while having a satisfactory customer experience from said company. I hope you can detect the sarcasm from there. I'm doing it as hard as I can.

Excuse-maker? That was stupid.
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Old Labs

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Why are you arguing with yourself after two months??? You're not making any sense.

Nevermind, we know... you had to be there ;)
(Edited)
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Jim16

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Dawn will be going to the unlimitedville  trash bin when the moderators get done with their weekend coffee break.  It's only cell phone service with the same limits and the need to have a tower within 3 miles of your location.  " We recommend being within 3 miles of the tower of the carrier you're choosing."  They just buy data in bulk and resell it.  Cell phone is cell phone.  They are as much "unlimited"  as the cell phone carriers they are using.

(Edited)
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Jim16

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DANG!  I just saw Stephens  post earlier.  Spooky...
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Matt B, Viasat Employee

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I hate coffee.  I total tea.
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Will Mahan

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Aw, she's gone. That kinda makes my snark campaign look silly. I was on a roll, too.
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xode0000, Champion

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Exede will never be fast.
That would be why I routinely get 2.5 Mbytes/second (about 25 Mbps) whenever I need it.
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WoodyStrokerCat .

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Exede will never be fast.  They dont care about their customers. They got like a 350 billion  dollar contract from the government. New satellite services are coming though from other compedters.
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Brad, Viasat Employee

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Part of the advantage of ViaSat-2 going online now is that we'll be able to improve speeds across the board. It won't be overnight but as new activations go to that satellite, a few folks migrating over, what will happen is instead of everyone loading onto one satellite we'll have the workload split (and have a 3rd expected around 2020-ish) to improve even more. 
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Jim16

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"Aw, she's gone. That kinda makes my snark campaign look silly. I was on a roll, too."

Yeah, when posts get deleted it messes up the Feng shui, but, we know .... and then when somebody comes on here drinking tea, that really confuses everyone!
(Edited)
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Brad, Viasat Employee

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Looks like she got banned....I mean coming in from my weekend a bunch of emails with a lot of copy/paste didn't surprise me to see those posts disappear.  Probably a good time as any to post a reminder of the forum guidelines https://community.viasat.com/viasat/topics/exede-and-wildblue-forum-policies-update
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Old Labs

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Using those standards we're all in trouble... especially the part about reposting the same things over and over and over.... ;)
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Brad, Viasat Employee

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Reposting* 
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Bev, Champion

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What kind of tea Matt? I like PG Tips best for a black tea. Coffee is good too if it's one of the few varieties that don't taste like rusty water.
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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We always drank Lipton ice tea when I was being raised in the trailer park.
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Brad, Viasat Employee

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Oh that's still in rotation, put a lot of sugar maybe a celestial packet flavor booster and some ice cubes!
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Jim16

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Brad, Viasat Employee

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Oh Coffee still happens on the early mornings. 
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Bev, Champion

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I just want to steal that coffee machine y'all have in the Coffee Room upstairs. :P I'd probably sped as much as the whole building there does on coffee if I had that thing. LOL

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Brian, Champion

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What woke up this thread?
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Old Labs

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Dawn. She has left the building... and all traces of her have been bleach bitten except for seemingly nonsensical comments by others in reference to her.

She's now residing in Unlimittedville right next to Perfectville.

It all started with a Frankie Valli and the 4 Seasons flashback to 1964...  
(Edited)
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Jim16

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Is there nothing you don't know Old Labs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE40KM4SGAY
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Old Labs

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No really, her tirade started shortly after I replied to one of her comments with...

"Why did I just have a Frankie Valli flashback?"... from there things went downhill fast.

But to answer, I don't know how to whistle and have yet to master spelling.
(Edited)