Data usage discussion

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  • Updated 6 years ago
  • Not a Problem
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It is noteworthy to understand that the average home user, not including cellular data, uses an average of 50 to 80 gigabytes usage in a 30 day month. I sourced this figure with Forbes, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Microsoft, Google Inc., ..etc....there are many other's posting this statistic and that's how I arrived at this number, this can easily be verified. The point I am making, without stepping on toes, is that Viasat knows this, they have to, it is an integral part of the business model. The data cap that they have arrived to in the "fair use policy". Is obviously more of profit making policy rather than a way of sharing the bandwidth fairly, because if that were true, why then would they offer "more" data at $9.99 per gigabyte? Think about it, if this policy was designed to just limit data , then what is the logic in offering more data , except at a price? Lets say that a majority of the subscribers within a beam went 'over' their data, according to Viasat, anymore data used would cause network congestion. What they are saying is any data over 10 gigs will cause net congestion, unless you pay more for 15 gigs and/or 25 gigs. The only common denominator in all this is they money! If you go over the 25 gig data cap, there will be net congestion UNLESS, you pay money for more, then it will be fine. Viasat's fair use policy " DOES NOT HOLD WATER " ! I do agree that there are certain limitations to satellite internet that is inherit, one of those is the latency. The satellite launched, I believe its called Viasat 1, has more capacity in data flow, than all other satellites "COMBINED" that are in orbit. Viasat central hub uses an all fiber ring the processes data at blazingly fast speeds, sometimes I get up to 30 mbs download and sometimes the same upload, latency is due to the orbit distance 22,000 miles each way. And ask yourself, do you really need internet at a speed of 30 mbs? Even 10 mbs? It is a known fact the streaming movies even in HD or even 3D only need a minimum required speed of 2 - 4 mbs. to operate and view with almost no buffering. It is my opinion and understanding without guess work, that network congestion with Viasat, is a myth at the current data cap limits. I believe a more fair use policy of an average of 50 - 80 gigabytes would be more of a reasonable figure to satisfy the average internet consumers demands even at speeds of 2 - 4 mbs.


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Roadrunn3rr50

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Posted 6 years ago

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Exede Josh

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Roadrunner, the "buy more" option is available as a convenience to our customers who have gone over on their data, and want to resume their normal speeds.  We do not force it on anybody as there is never an overage charge for a customer who has gone over on their data.  While speeds may not be a concern for you, it is for others.  Yes more than 90% of our customers get better than advertised speeds during peak times.  That does not mean that all customers receive those speeds all the time.  We restrict data usage because of the amount of bandwidth and throughput that we as consumers, consume.  You can ask some of the customers that were with us back in March when the meter was undergoing an upgrade, and usage was unmetered for a time, the slow down as a result of unrestricted access for all was quite noticeable.  More than just the slow down, we had numerous connectivity issues as well.  As for the idea that we want to "share data equally" for all consumers.  We have made no such claims.  We are a business, and as such, consumers who are willing to pay for it, have access to more data.  This is no different than any other business.  If you are willing to pay for more, you get more.  
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Callen Gilbert

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I am going to jump in here with a few comments.  For one, Excede may have always had this data cap but I have a problem with that because a few years ago I was using a wireless internet company from some where back east.  I had no limit in usage and would commonly run 60 to 80 gig a month just as you say is average Roadrunner.  This went on for over two years when suddenly they sent me an email asking me to cut back my usage. My internet satisfaction went down but I cut my usage to less than 60g each month.  A few months later they asked me to cut it to 40g.  I obtained their phone number and called to discuss the matter and was told that the wireless usage was not the problem but they were getting contacts from the wired end after my data was on copper.  We argued and discussed until they gave me a number to call where I could talk to their sattelite part of the company.  It was Wild Blue and I was told that I would be able to keep the 60g of usage that I had been getting from the wireless.  However after I signed up and they started cutting the amount back and I asked about the promise that I could keep the 60g I was told whoever told me that was mistaken and had no right to promised it to me.  So at one time I did get a lot more than the 25g per month so that comment is not entirely true.
As for the comments made by Excede Elizabeth concerning the VOIP and data differences, the are not entirely true either.  I am a retired Network Admin/Engineer and the way routers work out the differences between data and voice don't work exactly like the way she explains it.   Routers have very few choices when it comes to both data and VOIP.  The most important and the one command that is worthy of comment in this regard is:  DO YOU WANT VOIP TO HAVE PRECEDENCE?  And if you want VOIP to work correctly and smoothly the answer is always YES.  It is apparent that Excede follows this method just as everyone else in the industry does.  And I  am not talking about a single brand or model of Routers.  Cisco of course is number one in most peoples minds but there is also Extreme and several others that Excede could be using and I would probably lay a rather large bet that whatever they are  using I have had my hands on and either tested or used.  
Roadrunner your analogy of the traffic byway and travel is a great way to describe what we are talking about here.  Excede is trying to claim that me going over my 60g per month will affect someone else and that is completely untrue.  There is no correlation between the amount of data anyone uses and the speed in which someone else experiences.  If excede wanted to be fair they could guage that 25g per month at 9+mb / second download would be X amount of data.  I don't need 9+ mb / second speed.  No one in a non commercial environment does.  So I only want 3+mb / second so why don't they allow me to have my speed set at a 3mb / second cap and allow me 75g of data per month.  By their own explanations that would be totally in line with their own fair use policy.  I would not only be not hurting anyone else but would actually be helping others.  If they would do that for me then I would not even care if they took away the late night free zone because I would never use more that my 75g per month.  They do have the capability to do that very easily since all it would take is a very small change on the router to give me that cap all month instead of the automatic cap they set now if I go over my 25g limit.  HOW ABOUT IT EXCEDE?  Doesn't that sound fair to you?   
I have not been getting the late night free zone all month anyway.  I am able to download at 60kb/sec  tops right now during the late night free zone which is the same thing I am getting because I ran over my 25g cap.  I run over my limit almost every month.  I do so because I am disabled and I don't sleep a lot.  I sit here and play video games most of the time to keep my sanity of being stuck in this chair day in and day out.  Not all video game companies have programmed in a method to set the update times.  The programs update when they send out an update.  And guess what, updates are sent out when their workers are at work.  That is during the daylight hours.  So the updates tend to drive me over the limit all the time.  The first day of my December start one game updated with and 8gig update and another with over 4 gig a few days later.  So I used over half of my limit in the first week.  The next  10 days saw the rest of my limit used.  I now have to set here for over a week at slowed throughfare of data.  And to top off that, I am not getting the late night free zone which I told about earlier. My games will not work at the slow speed so I sit here and suffer through a week or so each month because of things I really have no control over.  Thanks Excede for you compassion.
Excede at least tell the truth about how your own system works.  Yes you are there to make money as you said so be PROUD of that fact.  Don't hide it behind falsehoods and half truths.  You cut everyone to 25g in the hopes that people would buy more data at ten dollars a gig which is so outrageous it is funny.  
And by the way I can't buy more data this month if I had the money to do so because I have not been able to get into the webpage for the data usage and buy  more all month either along with no late night free zone.  I guess Excede has their fall back settings to favor themselves instead of the customer when something goes wrong.

Sorry I rambled on so long here but there was a lot to be said about this matter.  I am so frustrated sitting here at 3 o'clock in the morning unable to do much more that this right here.  
Here is my cup raised to Excede.  I salute you for your half way truthful comment about here to make money.  Go with the rest of it and leave the half truths in the garbage and be proud to tell everyone that is why you have the data usage policy that you do.

Here is my cup raised to the customers that have to suffer through this outrageous cost of data usage.  It is in the hopes that someone will soon discover a better method to get "high" speed data out here to the people who do not live in town where they can get  true high speed internet.  It is also in the hopes that when that discovery is made no company that sells high speed internet now will be able to sell the new method.

Hang in there fellow customers.  Our time will come.
 




Callen
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Exede Josh

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Callen, it sounds like you may have been on one of our recovery act packages.  We didn't force anybody off the recovery act, even after it ended this year, in fact we still have many customers who have recovery act packages.  I am wondering if there was some sort of change of service in your case, such as a move or reconnection.  If one of our customers on the recovery act moves or reconnects, then they will not be able to receive that same package.
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Callen Gilbert

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nope   I have lived  here for twenty years.   Dial up with earthlink back in '80s then on to a kind of wireless and then to Edge and then 3G.  wow what improvement.   Back to a true wireless again and then to Satallite.  And then told I was being cut back .. I fought with people in your office about it days on end but I was told over and over I no longer was elgible for it.  So I was cut back to 60g and then when Excede came out I was told in order to get the faster downloads which I needed badly because Wild Blue sucked out here, that I had to be cut back to 25g limit because that was the highest that was offered.  So being disabled with nothing else to do, I run over in my third week of almost every month and sit with my thumb uma   the rest of the month till it is reset.

I would love to give up half or more of the available download speed that is available for double or more of my usage limit.  Who needs over 3 or 4 Mb per sec download.  Not me but I do need a higher usage limit.  And I do not download or stream music or movies.  I seldom do more than chat once in a while with little Facebook or Twitter.  I have read some of the peoples estimates for different programs on here and for the most part they are completely inaccurate.  I am a retired Network Admin/Engineer for one of the two major universities in the state and understand routers, switches, bandwidth, usage and most anything else you could mention when it comes to the Internet.  I mean, the Telephony and Data departments at school were actually an internet service provider with 30 to 40K customers.
Anyway, I don't know why I was cut back the way I was.  I just know it happened and there is nothing I can do about it.





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Exede Josh

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Callen, did you purchase your Exede Internet directly through us, or was it through a 3rd party reseller?
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Callen Gilbert

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I am not sure.  It has been too long ago.  Directly through Wildblue to begin with I believe.
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Haley Ann

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This service is totally bogus.
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Roadrunn3rr50

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Thanks for the reply Josh, I'll just make a comment/statement then get out of the way and you all decide for yourself if I'm right or wrong. I believe this is the fact, its my opinion, no more, no less. Just hear me out. Here is why Viasat's "Fair Use Policy" is bunko.

It seems like every method we use to access the Internet, wired or wireless, has some sort of data consumption cap. Some of those consumption caps are used to set a limit such that an additional revenue stream can be created at higher data volumes. But other caps are used to set a level that separates acceptable use of a network from abusive use of a network.Whatever the language used or the commercial model implied, the existence of a cap seems to be fairly consistently aimed at the “top 1% of users”. It is said that the 1% consumes a disproportionate volume of data when compared to the average user. The implication being (without it really ever being stated) is that the 1% of users impose a disproportionate cost on the network operator. They are also commonly referred to as bandwidth hogs.But there is a big problem with this. Bandwidth and volume are not the same. Bandwidth is typically measured in bits per second. Data volume is typically measured in bytes. To provide an analogy, a network’s bandwidth is equivalent to the number of lanes on a road. Data volume is equivalent to the number of miles an individual car travels along a road over a certain period of time.The cost of building a road is almost fully correlated to the number of lanes that are built. But there is no correlation between the cost of building the road and the number of miles a car travels along it after it is built.

same is true for a network. The cost of a network is almost completely determined by the bandwidth that is needed. And that “need” is very predictable. Just as for a road system there is a network busy hour. The number of people you want to allow through a road system at a certain speed determines the number of lanes you build. And as a network operator, the number of people who you want to experience a certain bandwidth at the same time determines the total bandwidth you build.Back to our 1% “bandwidth hogs”. Let’s say that this 1% all used their Internet connection fully for every minute of every day. If they did then they would consume a very large volume of data – lots of those bytes. Way more than the average person. But did they actually cost the network operator a disproportionate amount more? No. Imagine these bandwidth hogs actually turned their use off only during the busy hour – the hour that drives the cost of the network. Would removing 1% of cars from the rush hour on a road make any noticeable difference to the experience of the other 99%? No.

Would those bandwidth hogs consume very much less data volume by refraining from using the network during the busy hour? No.

So there is no link between the 1% bandwidth hogs, when bytes are used to pick them out, and the cost to the network operator.

The problem is actually the large percentage of people who all want to use the network at the same time. That’s probably nearly all of us. And that’s a hard problem to solve. But making a scapegoat of people that continuously use an Internet service isn’t going to help. If all those bandwidth hogs left the network today the cost for the network operator doesn’t change and the experience we all have during the busy hour doesn’t get any better.

according to your fair use policy, Viasat should be disconnecting its consumers completely from the network in order to prevent congestion, instead of offering them the convienence to purchase more. You have to call it what it is Josh, you work for a company that is selling data at metered doses, plain and simple. And you do it with no regard to consumer cost, for the fact that you have consumers with a limited choice of access, normally those that live in a rural setting, lets face it, your competition is other satellite providers that basically cost the same and cellular networks are a limited service for what a consumer wants. I don't know what else to say to you, other than letting you know that you are so misinformed by your bosses. Have you ever complained about the price of gas? Just to go to another gas station and save maybe one penny? That's what your average customer feels, yes we have a choice of ISP, but does it really make a difference? Then all the gas companys are telling you the same thing why their product cost the way it does? That's exactly what the satellite ISP industry does along with other ISP such as cable, DSL and such, only they have larger caps because they do have a lot of competition. Anyhoot, thanks for reading.....anyone can chime in......from the Roadrunn3rr50


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Haley Ann

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Roadrunn33rr50, you are awesome! I love it! I can't wait to see Josh try to answer this one with his scripted b.s.
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Roadrunn3rr50

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Haley, they do have a script, it is counter-intuitive for them to believe the truth. I don't fault him or any of them, its there job that's important to them, you almost always have to agree with your boss, right? Otherwise, look for another job! I'm almost positive that any intelligent person can see what's going on here, its just that you must ask yourself two things.....Is it in my best interest to respond in agreement because it is the truth? And, can I live with my self and my family knowing that a majority of our customers are elderly, lowered educated, and low income citizens whom will accept the cost whether or not information the information is true, because how would they know the truth if we artificially complicate it to the point that sound like the truth, how would they know anyways? (that was a long winded one....wheew !) Do you see my point....Josh does read a script, his job depends on it, he may not actually read it any more, I mean that if you tell yourself something long enough and hard enough, even if its not true, your mind will make it true, regardless what anyone will say, especially when there's a paycheck involved, right? and the sheep goes baaaaaah! Thanks for reading, go and spread the truth...Roadrunn3rr50...Arkansas, USA
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Exede Elizabeth

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Hi Roadrunn33rr50,  

In order to offer higher data plans, at this point, we would have to offer the service to less customers.  As you know, many of our customers are in very rural areas. This potentially means that we would have to turn some folks away because we would not have the capacity on the network with out sacrificing speeds and reliability of service.  

How many of those people would be with out ANY viable source of high speed internet?   We choose to offer  moderate usage plans to provide a high speed option to more people.  

Yes,  customers have the option to "buy more", but at a premium price to encourage use of the free zone instead. During the free zones we can accomodate higher downloads, without the risk of slowing the entire network down during daytime hours.  

We are investing in the future.  The new satellite scheduled for launch in mid- 2016 may be the next step toward the kind of offerings you are talking about.  Our current satellite (ViaSat-1) has broken the world record, and I believe the next one is going to change the satellite industry as we know it.

Thanks for posting and have a great day :)
(Edited)
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Roadrunn3rr50

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Can you explain why my Vonage Voip service does not work now that my internet has been throttled back, YET EXEDE'S VOICE SERVICE IS STILL OPERATING WITH FULL SERVICE? Can you explain to me what your "Fair Use Policy" says about this? It is clearly an UNFAIR practice. Please don't tell me that your data caps have anything to do with controlling net congestion or fair use. This is exactly why the " Data Cap Integrity Act of 2012" was written and introduced for. Viasat would never be able to receive an exemption from this if and when it becomes Law.
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Exede Elizabeth

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Yes,  I can try :)

Once you exceed your data usage threshold, the speeds slow down to 256 Kbps and activities other than email and browsing may not work.  It has been this way since we started providing service.  

Before Exede Voice ever existed, 3rd party VOIP applications such as Vonage or MagicJack always contributed to data accumulation and like some other activities, may not work well when in data restriction.  

When  Exede Voice was introduced a couple of months ago,  we included a benefit that our VOIP service would not draw from the data cap and does not get cut off when data cap is met.  

Nothing changed
for customer who were using other VOIP applications.  The policy remained exactly the same.  
(Edited)
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Haley Ann

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I believe all she was saying is people don't always report being victimized in which case she feels she has been.
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Exede Josh

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Haley, I just left you a voicemail message.  Just let me know when the best time is to call.

With regards to the warning I issued, there were multiple posts which violated forum rules.  Let's move on and not further derail the topic.  
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LumiBlossom .

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There was no derailment sir, as in the other thread; you misinterpreted and took advantage of word usage.

Haley is correct. Please do not throw words and statistics around with the expection that someone.will not correct you.

I intend to make a somewhat happy post tonight about your service, do not delete that as trolling please, it could be considered a criminal offense to abuse power.
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Exede Josh

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Let's just move on and get back on topic.  Lumi if you want to further discuss the issue, feel free to email me.
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LumiBlossom .

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I agree with josh. We've beat thw topic senseless, lets take a reprieve!!
How do i email u
(Edited)

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