ASUS AC-3200 Router Setup Behind Exede Modem Router

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I currently have an ASUS AC-3200, but for the most part this will apply to any router, but has anyone had any success with setting up another router behind the Exede modem/router (essentially having the Exede modem as a bridge). I'm just about ready to try anything at this point. The reasoning for me is to add an extra level of security, and to be able to monitor traffic better. Plus the AC-3200 has much more features.
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Stephen Stecyk

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Posted 1 year ago

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les

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I have been using netgear routers for the past several years and they do work great.
but they lack the ongoing support after a couple years they no longer offer any updates to firmware that a few other router makers do.
 my connection with the viasat modem has continued to work just fine.
but as far as security? my current wn/1000 could do better if they had firmware updates.
 I read the asus have a better record for firmware updates and may switch to that brand in the future.

*  I look forward to reading what "old Labs" might have to say on this subject.
his posts are informative concerning routers.

 
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Old Labs

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I have no insight on how to do this with the newer Exede Wifi modem/router/voice device. I've followed some of the threads here and there's yet to be a definitive answer. It seems to be a hodge-podge of information across multiple threads and sometimes contradictory. It's simply to difficult to follow without having access to the router itself and its UI.

The user guide doesn't have sufficient information regarding doing this either beyond some very basic setup.

ViaSat has to step up to the plate on this one, particularly if the all-in-one solution is going to be forced on everyone with ViaSat-2 coming online (note that has neither been confirmed nor denied)- people are investing substantial sums in their own routers that meet their own specific needs. In some cases over $350 or more. My next one will be in the $249 range for the features I really need at this time. An all-in-one solution does not fit everybody's unique needs nor does a one size fits all router solution. Without some guidance on how to do it, some of those facy routers are going to turn into paper weights or shelf-ware.

Specifically they need to document and support how to take the built-in router functionality out of the picture beyond simply turning off WiFi and that need not wait until ViaSat-2 comes online - it should be addressed now. I recognize ViaSat can't document anything other than their own device on how to do this and nobody can expect them to document other device actions needed but some common technical language would at least help.

P.S. That being said, there were a lot customers requesting an all in one solution some two years ago or so; some of us even advised against it at that time - be careful what you wish for, you may get it. While it does make sense for ViaSat from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense for all customers. It seems the major selling point is the possibility for Boost 25 and I often wonder why that functionality is tied to the router and not simply the modem.   
(Edited)
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Diana, Viasat Employee

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Hi Stephen,

 At this time, the Exede WiFi Modem does not support completely disabling the internal router functions (aka, bridge mode). As such, please be aware that user-supplied routers in this configuration might require special router configuration changes, such as adjusting the DHCP scopes in use to avoid duplicate IP address assignments.

Please read this article on changing the SSID; http://viasat.force.com/kb/articles/General/How-to-change-your-WiFi-Modem-network-password
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Michael McDowell

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I must have just been lucky.  I have a Linksys WRT1900AC and I pretty much just plugged it into the first swith port on the back of the Exede WIFI modem and everything seems to work just fine.  I had been using this router with a local wireless provider for awhile and the rest of my home network never missed a beat when I connected it to the Exede modem.
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Steve Frederick, Champion

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Old Labs, like you, I have nothing against the Exede WiFi modem. I just want to be able to use my choice of router for my home  network.

As it appears now, the Exede Wifi just doesn't allow me to do that, unless there are functions that are not documented.

Also, the fact that the Exede WiFi modem can only be set to one band, although it is advertised as a dual band router. It requires the user to choose whether they want to use the 2.4 GHz OR the 5 GHz band. I prefer to have both bands operational.
(Edited)
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Gwalk900, Champion

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Old Labs,

Are you registered at DSLReports?

If so send me a PM. You'll find me as Gwalk in or around the Hughes sub-forum.


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les

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shucks the new type services requires their wifi router/modem
and that prevents us from using a router that we choose - bummer
that is another reason I turned down the offer of the tech guy to change me over to hughsnet [among other bad reports about them]
the use of a propitiatory modem/router is a poor decision indeed.

 thanks for the information about this.
I have been following this thread and it has proven useful.

 hopefully excede might have a better modem for those that choose that as an option with the better router of our choice.
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Old Labs

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Tried, not sure if it went through or not - never really use that forum though. I'll check later, but can also be found at https://www.wildblueworld.com/forum/forum.php as LabRescuer - you'll know me when you see me.
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Old Labs

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les,

I'm not sure that's the case just yet. Exede Alex has already stated that all new equipment will be required to migrate to the new satellite - I assume that includes a newer version modem/router/wifi device which may address some of the short comings of the original Exede WiFi modem - we'll have to wait and see.
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Old Labs

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Stephen,

Going back to your original post (since we're spanning two separate threads with the inevitable drift) and consulting with my brother from another mother, you may want to double check the approach originally suggested by GWalk over there. We may have strayed a bit off-topic. This really should be no more difficult than connecting an Exede modem LAN port to your ASUS WAN port and resolving any router gateway IP address conflict. By default, my ASUS router uses a default of 192.168.1.1 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 - off hand it appears from a prior post over there you have a conflict on that which needs to be resolved.

At that point you need to enable DHCP on the ASUS router (if not already enabled), and simply ensure all access is through your router (disable WiFI on Exede's and only have the ASUS router attached to the Exede modem/router - i.e. the only access from the Exede device is to the ASUS device).

Perhaps you or someone else having that Exede modem can determine what it's default router gateway IP address to choose a more appropriate one (i.e. if one uses 192.168.1.1 the other should use 192.168.0.1 or something else or could be based on the port used on the Exede) - the 1st through third components when coupled with subnet mask 255.255.255.0 are the ones to avoid conflicts on later when DHCP comes into play). Then configure DHCP to pass out IP addresses in the appropriate range - for example my ASUS DHCP is configured to pass out IP addresses in the 192.168.1.2 through 192.168.1.4 (although I go the added step of manual rather than dynamic IP assignment to ensure only the current 3 devices I own/use have access as well as a known IP address; if I added another device I'd need to reconfigure to allow it access).      
(Edited)
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Old Labs

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P.S. Knowing what the Exede WiFi modem uses by default is the key to avoiding conflicts - sorry can't help you there as to what those are, but ASUS routers have sufficient means to avoid them. 
(Edited)
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Gwalk900, Champion

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I'm going to try and get some screenshots from my Asus 3100 along with some suggested IP numbers for your Asus in regards to the Router LAN IP and the "gateway IP" to input into the Asus so it knows where to "look" for Internet .
I'm working today but will try to get them in the AM.
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Stephen Stecyk

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Screenshots would be great. The only way I've got the ASUS router to successfully connect to the Exede modem via the WAN port is to have the Exede router running DCHP (ASUS router saying it's connected to the internet, yet I can't get anything behind the ASUS router to connect to the internet). I had the ASUS router having a LAN ip address of 192.168.0.1 on subnet 255.255.255.0 (same subnet as the Exede  modem) running DHCP starting at 192.168.0.2- 192.168.0.234.

I've been reading about static routing when having one router downstream from another, but it doesn't make sense to me. I may check some other sites to see how others do it (in my spare time lol)
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Gwalk900, Champion

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Hi Stephen,

I have some graphics and screenshots worked up so lets begin.

Even though you may believe you have taken these steps before ... bear with me.

I believe that you did not have the proper "IP separation" before.

Those numbers can get a little slippery. There is a vast difference between .100 (point one hundred and .1 (point one)

Each place can hold a value of 256 numbers, numbered 0 (zero) through 255.


There are a number of "ports" among all the equipment ... LAN's (Local Area Network) and WAN (Wide Area Network) and its important that we be on the same page when defining them.


The Exede Modem:

Above are the Modems LAN Ports numbered 1 thru 4

These ports are used to connect to your devices if using the Modems "routing" function.

We will use only one LAN port, Port #1 to connect to our Router.


Next we have the rear the Asus AC3200. It has five ports in total. Four LAN's and a single WAN that is offset to one side.


LAN Ports:

The above ports are where we connect our wired devices rather than using the Modem's LAN ports.


WAN port:

The above depicts the Routers WAN port. It is used to connect the Router to the Modem.


Lets get started on our configuration.

Lets begin by connecting a single computer directly to LAN Port #1 of the Modem:

We need to disable all direct wireless connections through the Exede Modem and verify that fact.

After having done so, disconnect the Ethernet cable from the rear of the Modem and attempt a wireless connection on both 2.4 and 5 ghz frequencies. Include Guest Accounts as well.

After confirming no connections are possible power off the Exede Modem by removing AC power.

Due to the way the "leases" are negotiated between networked devices it is important that you follow the proper order on connecting and powering up the Modem, Router and other connected devices.


Next we need to connect to and configure the Router:

Connect a single wired computer directly to the Routers #1 LAN port.

No other connections ... wired, wireless

No Modem present .. it should be powered off at this point.


(Router is an Asus RT-AC3100 running the Asuswrt-Merlin firmware)


We need to set and verify the routers MODE:

Make sure that the Router is set to "Wireless Router Mode (default)" as depicted above

Doing so will set certain items such as DHCP as well as others:

Whenever changes are made, remember to hit the "Save" button while still in that category or page.


Next we need to set where or the way the Router expects to find an Internet connection.

We will first try "auto". Do this again even if it seemed to fail before. You did not have, in my opinion, the proper "IP separation". 

Insure that your WAN is set to auto as outlined in red above and that the settings in the blue outlined areas are as above.

Remember to scroll down and hit the "save" button:


Next we need to perform a very important step:

Setting the Router's LAN IP.

IP addresses are important, they must not conflict, they must not overlap.

We are going to set the location of where the Router "Lives" to 192.168.2.1

Remember to click "save" after the change

Write this number down

Address 192.168.2.1 is where you will find the Routers GUI log-in screen.

That is where the Router "Lives"

The Router will start handing out IP addresses to devices starting with 192.168.2.2 and continue upwards for the next 255 devices

I believe, and we will verify this later  that your Modem "lives" at either 192.168.100.1 or 192.168.1.1

We just need to insure that those IP's don't step on each other.

Once the above changes are made and the changes saved, power off the Router

Connections:

With all devices off, connect as follows:

Connect an Ethernet cable from the Modems #1 LAN Port to the Routers WAN Port

Connect an Ethernet cable from a wire computer to one of the Routers LAN Ports

In the following order:

#1: Power up the Modem and let it boot up completely before proceeding

#2: Power up the Router and let it boot completely before proceeding.

#3: Power up the wired computer


Open a browser and enter 192.168.2.1

This should lead you to the Router GUI log in screen.

Log in, take screenshots of WAN, and LAN


Open a browser and enter 192.168.100.1 and see if it leads you to the Modems internal interface.


You may then secure the Routers GUI username and password as well as enable wireless encryption.

Set up a single device to test wireless connectivity.

Post back the results.


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Stephen Stecyk

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Not to try to sound stupid (and justt to be clear), DHCP enabled on BOTH the exede router and ASUS router? My understanding is that the exede router needs DHCP enabled to obtain the IP address through the WAN port, and the ASUS router has the DCHP enbaled to distribute addresses throughout the LAN network.
(Edited)
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Gwalk900, Champion

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Yes, DHCP is enabled on both the Modem and the router.

You can not disable it in the Modem

Look at it this way, The Modem is going to "route" to devices connected to it. It assigns IP's to those devices.

If you hook only a Router to the Modems LAN port, the Modem "sees" only one device, the MAC address of the Router.

The router in turn will assign IP addresses to devices connect to its (the routers" LAN ports

The Modem will only see one device (the Asus) the Asus Router will see all devices connected to it and handle traffic to and from those devices.


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Gwalk900, Champion

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Stephen,

Just follow the steps I outlined in my post.

Don't jump ahead, don't stray from what is listed as that can add some variables.

If you had read the post you would have seen where I stated how DHCP is handled.

Our goal is the get your router connected and functioning as you like AND to provide some info that we can incorporate into a "how to" for other users.

Please don't overthink the problem, just follow the steps posted above and document any issues and we will resolve them.

Because some of the steps are done with no internet connection, I suggest you print out my post including the pictures.


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John Carpenter

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Gwalk900 YOU ROCK!  Thank you for your instructions for how to configure an ASUS router behind the Exede and for the time it must have taken you to have assembled them.  Very easy to follow.   I have a high-end ASUS router that exceeds (no pun intended) the capabilities of the Exede router and your instructions allowed me to continue using the ASUS.  Fantastic!  John
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lsandersj

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Gwalk900 I wish to thank you for this post.  Besides being very well done I appreciate your effort to help us less literate in these projects.  I finished my installation and the settings allow me to log in to my Asus front end from either my wired or wireless computer.  I tried Exede support and that was no help basically saying "no my yob".  I also tried my annually subscribed paid tech support service and they couldn't help.  So, thanks again.
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Gwalk900, Champion

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I'm a Hughes guy but ....
I think we can work this out.

All Hughes modems are hard wired to 192.168.0.1
That leads to the Modems SCC (System Control Center) that displays, among other things system status and web acceleration controls.

The new HT2000w WiFi modem has an addition IP address that leads to the Modem internal wireless config page.
I think that this is equal to the Exede modems :8080 port

Once we have this worked out I can repost as a topic my post above to give a "how to" on adding a user router to a Exede Wifi modem.

We just need to work out the proper IP addresses.
I have been using my own router for 13+ years with a "double NAT" without issue.
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Old Labs

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I think much of the confusion here and in other posts is a matter of terminology so it's important to note what the final goal is. This approach should suffice for most home users; and it's important to keep things within the context of home networks not corporate networks.

Although some cite double NAT as a performance issue adding unnecessary latency, an additional few milliseconds, if even that, isn't going to amount to much of a consideration on satellite internet given its inherently greater latency of 500+ milliseconds

Double NAT can cause issues with peer-to-peer technologies that are unable to trace the network path, path discovery and gaming/media services that use uPnP. At the same time it can introduce some trouble shooting complexity to larger networks.

Looking at the list provided by Bev, it does appear that sufficient features are available to overcome most of those NAT other issues in the home environment if they do occur (DMZ, port forwarding, etc.), but many simply may not require it.      

Bridge mode is really something different than this approach and isn't available on the Exede WiFI modem. I suspect providing it would eliminate ViaSat's ability to remotely manage the modem (actually the router component of the combo device is the bigger issue) and that's one of the touted benefits of the Exede WiFi modem for those not wanting to get into the details of all this messy networking stuff. Providing a bridge mode (maybe the next evolution of it will), however, would make some more comfortable but even with the NAT approach you can fully and securely manage your own network (just remember it's your responsibility and recognize where the responsibility boundaries lie once you choose any option.

GWalk900's write up here provides a good starting point for most and thanks once again. I'm bookmarking it now...
(Edited)
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Grumpyoldman

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Maybe a true bridge is not possible, but using the DMZ basically makes a direct path between the LAN router and the exede router Internet IP address. So as far as the LAN controller is concerned its connected to the ISP directly. It works well like you say for Joe user like me who doesn't particularly like the SB2+25 router. And I have not seen any P2P problems yet.
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Stephen Stecyk

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Well, I finally got things working!! Seems that the ASUS router was determined to set the DNS to exede router, so as soon as I changed it to the ASUS router, everything started working.

Now, just out of curiosity, if I need to forward ports, do I need to do it on both routers, or just the ASUS?
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Gwalk900, Champion

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Thanks for the reply Stephen,


 "Seems that the ASUS router was determined to set the DNS to exede router, so as soon as I changed it to the ASUS router, everything started working"

This doesn't really tell us much.

Can you provide screenshots of the Asus config pages so we can have definitive IP addresses?



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Jab

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RE: disable the SB2+ as a DNS

Then something else must pick up the "slack."

I'm using SB2 to RT-N66U, with RT-N66U's DNS disabled, so Win7 is setup with DNS info.

On SB2+, use Bridge Mode to eliminate a double nat
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bpilettejr

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It does not matter if you disable the DNS on the SB2+ as long as the AC3200 is the only thing connected t it and it uses an address pool different from the AC3200. While I was setting everything up, my AC3200 recognized the conflict and moved itself and its DNS pool to 192.168.2.1,192.168.2.x. But I also moved the SB2+ to 192.168.50.1,192.168.50.x too just for good measure (I could have moved the AC200 back to 192.168..1.1,192.168.1.x but I did not just in case the SB2 is ever reset or replaced. The only slight headache for me is if my assigned external IP address changes since I use an IPV6 tunnel with the AC3200 since VIASAT/Exede does not support IPV6 at all but the only thing I need to do is give the tunnel the new external IP address to point to and it happens very rarely. I could do it automatically with DDNS but the AC3200 cannot see my external IP address due to the double NAT and the SB2+'s DDNS does not support HE tunnels.

And here we are at April '18 with no VIASAT 2, being offered only slower plans to change to, No bridgeable modems, and no native IPV6. And Hnet is no alternative with its fees, poor CS and data capped "free zones".
    
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bpilettejr

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Jab, VIASAT's modem/router cannot bridge.
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Jab

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RE: VIASAT's modem/router cannot bridge.

Can now use Bridge mode on Surfbeam2+ (wifi modem)
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bpilettejr

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Thanks Jab, had not seen that one. It is true bridge mode because my ASUS now sees the external IP address even though it says "turns the wireless off". Also turns off all but the first ethernet port on the sb2+ which is what it should do.
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Stephen Stecyk

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Here are the screen captures




(Edited)
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Old Labs

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Stephen,

With a quick glance at the 1st screen cap (LAN-DHCP), you don't really need the Domain Name or Default Gateway under the Basic Config section; nor the Default Gateway DNS Server under the DNS and WINS Server settings. The default gateway actually defaults to whatever is specified for the LAN IP address on the second screen cap.  Overall, those are for some more advanced purposes better discussed elsewhere but even as as probably don;t cause any problems.

The second screen capture (LAN - LAN IP) looks fine and the IP doesn't conflict with the Exede "router's" address as later shown. Similarly the IP address ranges on  both your ASUS and Exede devices show no conflicts. Information is just displayed and obtained differently for each.

The third screen capture is a duplicate of the fiirst and believe GWalk wanted to see the WAN - Internet Connection settings. Regardless they should be what he shows in his screen capture.

Overall, I think GWalk is just trying to cobble together the basics and cleanly document the minimum actions that may be required. so he's well prepared for the next time someone asks.

That Exede screen capture could have saved a lot of heartburn right up front before we drifted off on tangents. There's nothing proprietary or insecure in there as long as only local private addresses are displayed (192.xxx.xxx.xxx and others) unless public IP address to get to them are exposed also.

Telling people to avoid router IP address conflicts is much easier said than done. Only those having routers that default to the same IP Address as the Exede router will likely experience this issue.

Once all that is done and to ensure all access is going through your Asus router, simply disable WiFi (however that's done) on the Exede device and ensure that one and only one ethernet cable is connected to the Exede device - the one going to your Asus router.   
(Edited)
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Stephen Stecyk

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The problem I was having (on the first screen capture) was that the router was defaulting to 192.168.1.1, which was the exede modem ip address, and I couldn't connect to the internet (even though I set the LAN IP to 192.168.2.1). Not sure if that was just a glitch, but I had to manually set those, and then I had functionality. I will attempt to post the remaining screen shots soon.
(Edited)
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Gwalk900, Champion

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Good Morning Stephen,

I'm glad you got things up and running.

Usually networking is a matter of resolving IP address conflicts.

I'm a big fan of connection to the Router with no connection to the modem present and pre-set the Routers LAN IP.

Question: May I have permission to use your screenshots posted above, if needed, in illustrating a "how-to" topic on adding a user router with the Exede WiFi Modem?


You have referred previously to adding subnets ... DMZ's and so forth.

I have to ask to what extent?

If you had a three story Townhouse plus basement and outdoor patio, that is one thing.

If you have a need for more than 4 Ethernet ports, I could see it.

For 95% of users a quality router is going to fulfill their wired and wireless networking needs while presenting the smallest WAN side exposure possible.

Every "exception", every "addition" increases the number of potential vulnerabilities.

When it comes to networking the KISS principle certainly applies.



(Edited)
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Old Labs

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Question: May I have permission to use your screenshots posted above, if needed, in illustrating a "how-to" topic on adding a user router with the Exede WiFi Modem?
Lacking that, you could use http://event.asus.com/2012/NW/DUMMY_UI/EN/ without messing with  or risking your own router and dummy them up.
(Edited)
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Stephen Stecyk

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Absolutely use the screen shots!

As for the other static routing and DMZ, i was referring to posts from other users to basically do what we accomplished here. One thing to note (and I haven't tried it with a DMZ) but if you are requiring any port forwarding with your secondary router, it appears you also have to set up port forwarding in at the exede modem as well, pointing those same ports to the ASUS modem.
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Grumpyoldman

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With DMZ the router behind the SB2 Boost doesn't even know it sb2 exists (or at least mine doesn't). And I don't believe I touched anything in the SB2 other than setting up the DMZ
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James Irvin

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This is great! I’ll be attempting to hook up my asus RT AC68U in the next week or so.
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bpilettejr

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I have the RT-AC3200 too. And I just received the new Exede modem.

I was using tunnelbroker for ipv6 but I can't now because the Asus can't do DDNS behind a second NAT.

So no ipv6 now.
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Old Labs

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Stuff like that is why many of us would prefer that ViaSat continue to offer a "modem only" solution - one size doesn't fit all in terms of router capabilities.

Perhaps the DMZ suggested by Grumpyoldman route may help?  
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James Irvin

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The ole “double NAT problem.

I’m working thru it myself with an ASUS router.


I would recommend that you do not go the DMZ route, but rather use port forwarding.

It is tedious and not for the faint of heart.


I absolutely cannot get “AICloud to work anynore with the excede router but everything else is pretty much working even without a bridge mode on the #d€*&%’ excede “router”.
(Edited)
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bpilettejr

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Why port forwarding versus DMZ?

Is that because of Exede's bandwidth and streaming tricks?

I did the DMZ but either would probably work since I mainly torrent anime which is one of the reasons I wanted ipv6.

I did some poking around to find my root ip address and found out it seems to be static. So I manually updated my ipv6 tunnel and I am going to watch that address.

So I turned off DDNS in the Asus for now.
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James Irvin

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Someone smarter than I can turn you off of DMZing. It makes me nervous to just open up everything and anything. It’s fine for troubleshooting but I would only use that on “downstream” devices.
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bpilettejr

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It does not worry me because the Asus router is protecting me being the only thing connected to the modem/router.