@ ViaSat Inc.

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I expect to get what I pay for. I'm a pissed-off California consumer.  We sue companies here, a lot, and we win. We are known around the world for that.  We have the best consumer protection laws in the world, except temperature-compensating gas pumps, Hawaii has us beat on that one.  One of our better laws has to do with "reasonable expectation" of goods and services provided for compensation.  A contract clause stating "up-to" brings little mercy from the court when a person states "I am a layman, untrained in law" in their complaint.

If ViaSat was unable to deliver the goods for an unforeseen reason and was working diligently to remedy the problem, I wouldn't be angry, but when they are throttling my speed and offer extortion to get it back, I take action.  I don't accept that I can go elsewhere, I am here and I pay, so my service should consist of what I pay for.

I have not seen a speed greater than 1.25Mbps since this fiasco started, at any time of day or night.  I NEVER saw a speed less than 12Mbps prior to this ordeal, at any time day or night.  I will post my speed test as of this morning at 9:45am at the bottom of this post, a time of day my speed should be "normal."

I sent my complaint to viasatlistens@viasat.com and did not enjoy the boiler-plate reply.  I countered with a better explanation of what ViaSat can expect and if everyone saw that counter-reply, ViaSat might end this travesty in minutes.  

ViaSat has some brilliant business lawyers but they are totally deficient in criminal law.  This thing they are doing brings a typical sentence of 20 years in prison, there's a clue of what they are involved in.  To say we can leave if we don't like it is no defense.  The reply Brad sent me condemns ViaSat more than once under the statutes they are violating and actually confirms they are violating State and Federal laws.  I am waiting to hear from 'ViaSat Brad' or counsel for ViaSat concerning how they expect to turn this around to a "no harm - no foul" 'accident'  on their part and restore everyone's service that has been impacted by their recent activities.  I have little patience remaining.


 
 
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J&J

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  • like they are very brave or very stupid.

Posted 6 months ago

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M.E.M.

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It is hard to forget your scurrilous and insulting previous responses in the past to people with complaints about Viasat.
Now the shoe is on the other foot.
What goes around comes around.
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J&J

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Perhaps you missed the part about "@ ViaSat?"

Since you are here, I fired on people that were unreasonable and made unfounded accusations against ViaSat.  Those people attacked ViaSat without first investigating the problems they were having.  I do my homework first.
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Nathan Hart

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Your contract clearly states they have the right to change the service.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Sure does.

We as customers have the right to cancel to.

I just did 2GB of downloads in under 15 minutes.

I am :)
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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You are serious about this? According to some people we should just accept it and move on.

Glad to see you back J & J.
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M.E.M.

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I feel the pain for people like you and others who have contributed to this forum in a positive way. Viasat is taking advantage of you. So far, I have no axe to grind because my service has actually improved since I first started posting here.
However, I have no sympathy for those forum members who, in the past, unconditionally defended Viasat as shills and obnoxiously insulted those with problems.
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J&J

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When someone came here accusing ViaSat of stealing their data saying "No way I used that much data in only X-days" I became a junkyard dog defending ViaSat.  I also have always said if ViaSat is in the wrong, I will put them in check promptly and I have.  That was only fair.
 
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Casual Observer

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See 8.4 of the terms and conditions regarding dispute resolution in:

https://www.exede.com/documents/master/customer-agreement.pdf

Not saying accept and move on, just proceed with their "process" outlined there if serious. 
(Edited)
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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But he is judge and jury!

He won't accept "case dismissed".
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Casual Observer

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What does Jab have to say on the subject, I await with bated breath - actually it appears in my case it may now be baited breath.
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J&J

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Doesn't apply here.  My complaint is a criminal matter.  
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Casual Observer

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And you think it's going to be addressed here? I'm confused - not that that's anything new. Or are you just trying it in the court of public opinion?
(Edited)
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J&J

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I live and die on being fair.  Coming here is as fair as it gets.  Here, they see it's probably going to go public at some point.  They have an opportunity to correct a mis-deed before things become irreversible.
 
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Casual Observer

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Well then blow the lid off and be done with it. That's fair and we're into the second month of this new policy now - I see no change of heart coming. I stand ready to capture the counter-reply in the event it gets taken down - let 'er rip! 
(Edited)
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J&J

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Patience, patience!  Everyone deserves a second chance, simply if for no other reason they were un-aware of what they were doing.  ViaSat gets their say here.  I'm not out for blood, I want a wrong, righted, and they must be given that benefit of the doubt.
 
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Jab

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@CO

I'm still on Exede 5-10, and these 150GB plans were never offered on the beam I use.  DL/UP speeds are good to excellent on the beam I use...so, I have no issue with Viasat/NRTC.

Cheapest Viasat plan now is $100.00/month for basic 360p vid,  Jetpack & Exede together cost about the same per month when I buy VZW prepaid cards on eBay.  I may keep both since Jetpack can deliver 720p/1080p video.  It's nice to watch videos now...in primetime.

Currently, I'm testing Jetpack's fitness over a month or two; I've got a spare 6620L...these are cheap on eBay.  Both of these used units were seldom used...so I have about $70.00 in two used Jetpacks.
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J&J

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Mr. Jab...

Yes, there are alternatives and I am attempting to change ISP's now.  I need the rain to stop long enough to plant a pole on a mountain since I was denied a permit for a tower (but a pole the same height is permissible, go figure).

Some of you should investigate T-Mobile's (Or Metro by T-Mobile®), as they have rolled-out their 600Mhz Extended Range system nearly nation-wide.  They have a little box similar to the Jet-Pack but T-Mobile's might work where the Jet-Pack can't.
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Casual Observer

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@Jab

So again what's your point and what does it have to do with this conversation? We're not discussing alternatives here but rather the merits of some criminal proceeding that has yet to materialize. I was seeking your input on J&J's claims and how he should proceed.
(Edited)
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Jab

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If enough background material was presented to FTC, and if they were motivated (keep in mind, the emperor has influence there), I suspect FTC may find foul play if speeds are intentionally throttled down during prime and non-prime times.

In regards to a Class Action, this would have to be reviewed.   There are some differences between class actions in federal court versus state court. And it essentially comes down to the rule that governs the class action. In federal court, there’s one rule. It’s called Rule 23. And that’s the court rule that allows for class actions, and it determines the criteria that one must have to become a class action. The states all have similar rules. They’re not exactly the same. And they vary from state to state."

I asked someone to use FCC's speed test.  Having background information is not enough, but factual data to support a claim.  Hard throttling during non primetime, as someone suggested, suggests an intentional act....either being an incompetent or competent act of programing. 

Viasat may have had the legal right to change policy, but hard throttling is a separate issue.  Insurance/etc companies change policy terms, usually when renewed.  Facebook/Paypal/etc., change policies whenever.  For instance, Paypal..."These changes are detailed on our Policy Update Page and will go into effect on March 29, 2019. If you agree to these changes, you don’t have to do anything. If you don’t agree with these changes, you may close your account. If you close your account before March 29, 2019, the changes will not apply to you.  So Paypal is saying, take it or leave it...no discussion.

Apparently, Viasat allowed for customers to leave their service, without penalty. If true, and if hard throttling does not exist, FTC would reject, and a Class Action is fruitless.
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Steve Frederick-VS1/Beam314, Champion

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I am waiting for J&J to show just why he thinks Viasat has committed a criminal act with the latest policy changes. I cannot foresee him coming up with any proof that Viasat has held a gun to any of its subscriber's head.
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Casual Observer

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Thanks, I knew I could count on you Jab. I think we should just frog march Brad right on out of here with all of this evidence - just kidding Brad! Pretty sure I didn't need to add that but you're undoubtedly under a lot of stress ;)
(Edited)
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J&J

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@ ViaSat Brad,

I received your email from today.  I question if it was sent prior to you seeing this post, or will that email remain the official statement of ViaSat Inc.?  You are "corporate" and as such you speak for the corporation itself, not just a branch office where corporate has no knowledge of events.

The law I allege ViaSat is breaking does not end even if I am invited to cancel my service with or without penalty, or change plans, or "sit tight" where I am.  Simply being subjected to what ViaSat has done is sufficient for convictions.  I think I'll be keeping my appointments with a law firm in Santa Clara.

I feel I have gone the full measure of being fair with ViaSat.

Thank you for your reply's, it shows ViaSat is aware.

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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Is that beware, or be aware?

Sorry. Just trying to add a little levity for a bad situation.

Deku will smack me again!

I miss the old forum!
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Jim16

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Crazy Craig has reappeared.  He was touting to be everyone's White Knight a year or so ago.  He will take down Viasat single handed..... ( I bet VetSat would LOVE to have Craig's dismal 1.25Mbs speed all the time)
(Edited)
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I’m confused. I always thought Casual Observer was J&J using a new screen name.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Ever see the movie Split?

Isn't Jab all three of them?
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GabeU, Champion

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Now THAT's funny! 
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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But if the Beast shows up, I am out of here!
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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I think I saw Lawnmower Man.
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Bradley

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J&J isn’t wrong. While I remember the defense he used to give to ViaSat, now he sees that ViaSat has stepped over the usual and customary policy change. This is both deliberate and without question beyond the scope of business as usual actions that the courts won’t let slide.

He is right, though, in that it may matter where the lawsuit is filed. Advantage California. Either way, at some point, I’ll sign on if asked and probably receive compensation.

My concern is for people without options. For a while I was among them. Life sucks. Old men with cats could care less. So could we. Corporate greed eventually gets the best of all companies. Sears, GE, now ViaSat?

Corporate letters change nothing. Litigation is what stops abuse of corporate power over helpless citizens.
(Edited)
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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I will say it again, there is legal precedent that if a company abuses their legal rights to the point it can be punitive on people, courts will rule against the company.

Probably a reason why they say people can cancel with no penalty. Pethaps they realize without that out, they might have a legal problem.

One also will argue they are not a monopoly and a consumer has other choices.
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Bradley

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You’re right. If someone files, I’m onboard. Sometimes the money upfront is worth the satisfaction on the back end.

Once again, paying for silver unlimited became an exercise in futility in trying to stream prime time with priority data. Somehow Liberty plans get faster speeds at present.....

Wonder how long that will last?

People change plans, then speeds change again, what will happen them?
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GabeU, Champion

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One also will argue they are not a monopoly and a consumer has other choices.
Another issue I can see is that, as far as I know, the internet has not yet been declared a basic human or citizen's right in the US.  If it hasn't, I'm sure it's coming, just like it has in many European countries, but legally speaking it may still be considered optional.
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Bradley

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100% correct, which is why it would make such a compelling court case.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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What you are referring to Gabe would be internet service would be treated as a utility.

Power is a utility.  Water is a utility.  Telephone is a utility (think about that one).  Broadband internet is not in the United States (at least not nationwide).
(Edited)
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GabeU, Champion

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Yeah, that, more or less.  
(Edited)
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J&J

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Bradley,

Thank you for trying to use reason in what is happening here.  This is not a civil matter, it is criminal.  I do not have the approval of my attorneys to disclose publicly what the specific allegations consist of yet.  Every person affected by the so-called policy change is a potential victim.  Ideally, nobody needs to retain legal counsel to file a report of an alleged crime, this is what calling the police, sheriff, or visiting the District Attorney is for.  I want this done right, thus a Silicon Valley law firm will prepare the complaint that I will be signing.  Proper and correct presentation is important.

Did anyone notice that ViaSat changed the contents of nearly every single topic in the "Legal" section of their website?  This was done the day after I first contacted ViaSat by email to inform them they may have committed a major felony in their revised data policy.  We are always told to go there and look for ourselves if we doubt they are abiding by their own policies.  I looked and NOWHERE was the new policy.  I did the classic "Save Page as..." thing the day before and used their policies (as they were prior to 2-22-1019) as part of my point of what they are doing (also violating their own published policies).  I saved every bit of their policies before they hastily changed them the next day (2-22-19) (without a new revision date).  They knew they were trespassing (going where they knew they shouldn't with the new data policy) and stepped on a snake... how poisonous it turns out to be depends on how the law handles this.

Deku made some astonishing observations about ViaSat, who they were, their ideals, the friends they had, and the friends they have now.  It was her thread that made me decide enough is enough. (https://community.viasat.com/viasat/topics/dear-viasat-and-every-viasat-customer).
It seems Viasat has fallen in with the wrong croud.   I also find it appalling the disrespect some of you are showing in her thread.  You even turn your insincere apologies into another slap in the face.  I guess for some life is just a big party where nobody ever sobers-up.

I think I'll leave again for awhile, let you all speculate and play who-knows-best.
 
(Edited)
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Steve Frederick-VS1/Beam314, Champion

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@VetSat.  I wasn't aware that water, lighting, sewage were utilities. If they were, then almost all of those on Viasat and Hughesnet would have municipal water and sewage, and even street lighting. 
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Deku (The #1 Hero Data Saver), Champion

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OOF

UGH UWAH

AUGH

*THUD-DUMP* *THUD-DUMP* *THUD-DUMP* *THUD-DUMP*

GASPS!!!

HUFF HUFF HUFF

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*Total Dead Silence*

*Cricket's Cricketing away*

*Crickets stop Cricketing*

*Total Dead Silence no wind blowing nor anything*
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Jab

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@ Deku...OOF

Better to say, "Plop plop, fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is!"

@all

Allegations of throttling can be submitted to the Federal Trade Commission, Pai said. The FTC has no rule against throttling, but it could try to punish carriers if they mislead consumers about the existence of throttling.

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Ricky5

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What’s happening? What fiasco is going on with viasat?
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Deku (The #1 Hero Data Saver), Champion

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You must have a Brain knowledge of a worm in the ground. (Also known as Earth Worms)
(Edited)
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Casual Observer

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Deku,
With regard to your fist post, don't worry, i suspect the debate will likely continue as folks get out of bed either with or without J&J. Without more clarification from him, however, there's not much for me to debate.

With regard to your second post, some things are best left unsaid.


Ricky5,

The fiasco J&J is referring to id regarding the policy changes to Freedom and Unlimited Plans (specifically unlimited plans acquired prior to February 13, 2018). These changes took place on January 15, 2019 and have been the topic of great debate since then - this is just the latest soap opera episode.

(Edited)
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Brad, Viasat Employee

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All I can say is more or less what was indicated in the email.  

For those affected, a change to another plan appears to show immediate relief. You're more than welcome to stay as is but be aware that's how the plan will operate moving forward. Changing a plan will be immediate relief but if this is a deal breaker we are not charging cancellation fees if applicable. 
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SonyaA

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Other words what Brad is REALLY saying is they are trying to force us out of our plans by making our plan mind numbing slow. In other words get off the plan or get out is what I am hearing. 
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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You are exactly right.

Hughesnet did the same thing to me years ago. I had a grandfathered plan that worked great. They made some changes and it was basically unusable. So instead of changing plans, which would require new equipment, more money, etc., I just went with Wildblue.

The companies change, but history repeats itself.
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fmj77

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I hope Viasat loses every lawsuit thrown at them and are forced to change their traffic policies again. This time to actually improve the service for their customers.
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Doug Pruette

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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure is based on a true story.
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fmj77

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Actually, I believe it was. I had a couple of friends in high school that went through similar experiences as them.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Personally I like Napolean Dynamite better.

Vote for Pedro.
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GabeU, Champion

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For a few months I kept seeing kids wearing "Vote for Pedro" T-Shirts in our local village.  I had no idea what they were for.  Then I saw the movie a few years later.  

It's pretty funny.  
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Stephen Rice, Champion

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Napoleon Dynamite didn’t have a functional time machine. His uncle got scammed into buying a device that zapped him in the balls instead.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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You never know unless you try!

I always wanted the Browns to sign Uncle Rico.

You never know unless you try!
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Ronald Stricklin

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Here's to many frivolous lawsuits that just waste the limited funds the company has. Here's to just as many legitimate lawsuits. If you can't afford a lawyer but you have the time, consider filing a complaint with the FCC, your state's attorney general, the FTC, and any applicable government agency. 
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Jab

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@Ronald

It's so simple, have a news organization compare Wireless Industry to Satellite Industry, in terms of "DVD Quality."  1.1Mbps is not the same as 1.5Mbps.
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Ronald Stricklin

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It's simpler, contact the fcc, file an informal complaint, viasat gets a paper work burden that they have to respond to and a public record remians. Contact the FTC, the complaints stack up and they investigate. Contact the State AG, in most cases there's a paper work burden similar to the FCC and may spark an investigation similar to the FTC. This is a waste of companies time and resources and it may lead to lawsuits. Your mentioning the cellular industry in your rant. The cellular industry has a history of successful lawsuits for using much less vague language in regards to cellular plans. In either case here's to increasing financial losses for viasat, whether thru waste or otherwise.
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Jab

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@Ronald

Using Exede 5-10, since its beginning, overall Viasat delivered, but its only a 10GB data bucket. Overall, previous users on satellite ISPs have experienced better days now than in earlier years, where many were choked way down in primetimes. Satellite ISPs have had limited bandwidth, but I believe with VS-3, this will be a game changer, and if a LEO is operational then, this will drive down plan prices.

Viasat is the company who attempted to bring consumers more bandwidth, but with VS-2 antenna glitch, and IFC business growing, this created a bandwidth crisis, imho, which caused a revision in policy for 150GB plans on VS-1.

From my consumer perspective, on the beam I use, I have no complaints.  If I was required to use video "throttling" at 360/480/etc, I would be ticked.  One user suggested using Chrome would be better on Youtube vids, but I believe Congress/FTC/FCC needs to define specific vid rates for a given quality.
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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But Viasat said the failures of Viasat-2 were minimal :)

https://spacenews.com/viasat-says-via...

After re-reading this, hindsight is 20/20 of course but if Viasat-2 isn't delivering the needed bandwidth to the planes (where business is much more lucrative for Viasat), let's steal more off Viasat-1.

For a corporation, it is all about profit. I get that. But if they can't deliver for their commercial customers before Viasat-3 gets up and operational, don't think for a minute they won't make more plan changes if needed.
(Edited)
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Jab

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@Vet

I suspect more bandwidth was needed in select beams, but their policy change had to apply to all beams, for either technical and/or legal reasons.  If true, I still believe traffic programming needs to be re-evaluated

Yes, IFC business is taking off, and these customers deliver on their "monthly" payments...no headaches here, and no call centers are needed for them....when an IFC unit fails, first class service, "Yes Sir.".
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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Analysis will show the satellite internet market is stagnant and dying. A company isnt going to invest more capital and resources in it, as expansion just isnt there.
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Jab

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@Vet...Analysis will show

New Coke - "Calls flooded in not just to the 800-GET-COKE phone line, but to Coca-Cola offices across the United States. By June 1985, The Coca-Cola Company was getting 1,500 calls a day on its consumer hotline, compared with 400 a day before the taste change. People seemed to hold any Coca-Cola employee — from security officers at our headquarters building to their neighbors who worked for Coke — personally responsible for the change."

Cable companies are taking a decent bite out of cord cutters pockets, and rates are expected to rise/rise, according to some analysis.

If two products have similar features that meets some consumers needs, but one costs less, what do these consumers do?  If a local rural telco would have laid fiber at my door, cheapest broadband plan is $80.00/month, but VZW may serve my needs at $65.00/month.

"It ain't over till it's over." Yogi Berra
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fmj77

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@VetSat, the satellite market is shrinking but it'll likely never go away. Many folks in this country will never have access to anything better than satellite. Viasat still seems to be investing in the technology, evidence being the 3 new satellites going up in a couple of years.
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Jab

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@fmj77

When autonomous type vehicles start rolling out assembly lines, more and more bandwidth will be required to update their driving maps.  Wireless companies, and satellite companies will be engaged in this competition.  Additionally, since a cheap mobile antenna exists today for sat based transmissions, its just a matter of time before mainstream auto OEMs introduced vehicles with this tech.

Musk is not into LEOs for consumer home based satellite...its about the drive-time experiences...like Sirius XM Satellite Radio...how about real-time video watching from Netflix/etc...like done on some aircraft these days, across USA
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VeteranSatUser, Champion

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I didn't say satellite internet is going away, I said it is a stagnant market. My point is that two companies won't be in the marketplace, only Hughesnet.

As far as the three new satellites, that is more for their commercial and third world country initiatives. I don't expect it to make much difference in the domestic market (see Viasat-2).
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fmj77

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Regarding VIasat 2, I still believe the antenna issue is much worse than the company is letting on. The relief that it was supposed to provide never happened.
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Jab

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@Vet

But, this news tidbit below would suggest some analysts think there's still some low lying fruit out there:

August 29, 2018 Viasat will receive $122.5 million in U.S. federal subsidies through the Connect America Fund, and is tasked with providing internet access to more sites than any of the other funding recipients.
=============
It would be nice to find specific plans that are given to those signing up via CAF monies.
=============

Although cellular is used in this WiFi setup,

Viasat teams with Bentley Motors to deliver secure in-vehicle Wi-Fi - In its deal with Bentley, broadband will come from cellular networks – at least initially. The platform can aggregate channels from up to three mobile operators to boost speeds and reliability. The Wi-Fi router and other parts of the system are located in the trunk.

it suggests Viasat is engage for a connected vehicle world....the previous satellite barrier was finding a cheap vehicle antenna for the masses...this too, has passed.

In this ballpark, the future's active players are warming up....its coming, but satellite is king of the hill for coverage, whereas cellular is king of the bandwidth hill. Maybe a hybrid system will be the future, for redundancy.